Ivermectin

[Doctor Phibes]

Hey, if Loki goes, can we all blame the conservatives for driving him away?

[Horace]

@doctor-phibes said in Ivermectin:

Hey, if Loki goes, can we all blame the conservatives for driving him away?

I would blame the anti-vaxxers.

[Loki]

I had no idea I was at the top of the charts with emotions, seriously. I am trying to figure out how I earned that title I have misread so many posts.

[Doctor Phibes]

@loki said in Ivermectin:

I had no idea I was at the top of the charts with emotions, seriously.

You can sod off - I'm at the top of the charts. You're not even a proper lefty. Least-ways, you never attend any of the meetings.

[Aqua Letifer]

@doctor-phibes said in Ivermectin:

@loki said in Ivermectin:

I had no idea I was at the top of the charts with emotions, seriously.

You can sod off - I'm at the top of the charts. You're not even a proper lefty. Least-ways, you never attend any of the meetings.

I think lefties had plenty of meetings last year, thanks.

[Catseye3]

@loki said in Ivermectin:

I had no idea I was at the top of the charts with emotions, seriously.

You're not. Don't worry about it.

And don't go.

[Mik]

Can we just stop with the personal attacks?

Meanwhile, back on topic - is there any understanding (I haven't read all the available literature) of how or why ivermectin works or might work against COVID? I haven't seen it.

[Mik]

OK, I googled it myself. Best article I found:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

And some tidbits...

Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19

Reports from in vitro studies suggest that ivermectin acts by inhibiting the host importin alpha/beta-1 nuclear transport proteins, which are part of a key intracellular transport process that viruses hijack to enhance infection by suppressing the host’s antiviral response.4,5 In addition, ivermectin docking may interfere with the attachment of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) spike protein to the human cell membrane.6 Ivermectin is thought to be a host-directed agent, which may be the basis for its broad-spectrum activity in vitro against the viruses that cause dengue, Zika, HIV, and yellow fever.4,7-9 Despite this in vitro activity, no clinical trials have reported a clinical benefit for ivermectin in patients with these viruses. Some studies of ivermectin have also reported potential anti-inflammatory properties, which have been postulated to be beneficial in people with COVID-19.

Rationale

Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in cell cultures.13 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.

[George K]

@mik this is the same thinking as HCQ. The fact that a drug may work in vitro, in a cell culture does not translate to you can expect it to work in vivo.

And, a somewhat related point, Plaquenil (HCQ) was first developed as an anti-malarial, but discovered to have anti-arthritic properties, effectiveness in SLE, and porphyria as well. The fact that ivermectin is an anti parasitic drug does not, per se, preclude its usefulness in other situations.

[Horace]

@mik said in Ivermectin:

Can we just stop with the personal attacks?

Probably not, if I'm confronted with mindless attacks that anybody who so much as entertains notions I entertain are incomprehensibly divorced from reality.

Meanwhile, back on topic - is there any understanding (I haven't read all the available literature) of how or why ivermectin works or might work against COVID? I haven't seen it.

There is at least some small signal in the evidence that suggests Ivermectin has some effect, especially as a preventative against COVID. Even the sceptics acknowledge that. They also acknowledge that Ivermectin hasn't been studied enough to know one way or another. If it is effective, I don't think anybody has a clue as to the mechanism.

[Aqua Letifer]

I'm down with more studies. Actually a shitload more studies. Treatment's definitely a missing piece. Obviously strong enough control on an infection would be just as good if not better than a vaccine.

[Mik]

Yep. Study away. Then talk to me about it as a treatment.

[Loki]

@mik said in Ivermectin:

Yep. Study away. Then talk to me about it as a treatment.

+3

With hydroxychoroquine it was the only hope at the time and I was frustrated that it was so roundly criticized as it felt political and there was no other hope.

With ivermectin it would be a dream come true for billions of people that really can’t get the vaccine.

My sensitivity arises when I perceive it as proposed as the better “or” rather than “and”.

Some of the proponents are on record in their discussion of Ivermectin as the better approach and there is a scientific obligation to correct that- until proven otherwise.

[George K]

Major study of Ivermectin finds 'no effect whatsoever'

Ivermectin, the latest supposed treatment for COVID-19 being touted by anti-vaccination groups, had "no effect whatsoever" on the disease, according to a large patient study.

That's the conclusion of the Together Trial, which has subjected several purported nonvaccine treatments for COVID-19 to carefully designed clinical testing. The trial is supervised by McMaster University in Hamilton, Canada, and conducted in Brazil.

One of the trial's principal investigators, Edward Mills of McMaster, presented the results from the Ivermectin arms of the study at an Aug. 6 symposium sponsored by the National Institutes of Health.

I've had enough abuse and so have the other clinical trialists doing Ivermectin. Others working in this area have been threatened, their families have been threatened, they've been defamed.
Edward Mills, COVID researcher

Among the 1,500 patients in the study, he said, Ivermectin showed "no effect whatsoever" on the trial's outcome goals — whether patients required extended observation in the emergency room or hospitalization.

"In our specific trial," he said, "we do not see the treatment benefit that a lot of the advocates believe should have been" seen.

The study's results on Ivermectin haven't been formally published or peer-reviewed. Earlier peer-reviewed results from the Together Trial related to the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, which had been touted as a miracle treatment for COVID by then-President Trump, were published in April; they showed no significant therapeutic effect on the virus.

The findings on Ivermectin are yet another blow for advocates promoting the drug as a magic bullet against COVID-19. Ivermectin was developed as a treatment for parasitical diseases, mostly for veterinarians, though it's also used against some human parasites.

[Loki]

Anecdotal comment to follow:

Another treatment, remdesivir, is being used at least one hospital. It requires a 4 day admission. It has been suggested a rise in hospitalizations is tied to this protocol.

[Mik]

That is entirely possible.

[Horace]

Glad they did this study. I'll be curious to see whether Weinstein accepts it. No comment on Twitter at the time of this writing.

[George K]

Here's why I hate the media.

Personally, I have no opinion on the effectiveness of ivermectin. This is NOT an endorsement of the drug.

CNN's Headline: Health officials warn people not to take a drug meant for livestock to ward off or treat Covid-19

Mississippi health officials are warning residents not to take an anti-parasitic drug -- in most cases, a formulation purchased at livestock supply centers -- to treat or prevent Covid-19.

The Mississippi State Department of Health issued an alert on Friday that the Mississippi Poison Control Center has received an increasing number of calls from people who have taken the drug known as ivermectin -- and that at least 70% of such calls related to "ingestion of livestock or animal formulations of ivermectin purchased at livestock supply centers."

While there are human uses for the drug, the US Food and Drug Administration has not approved ivermectin to treat or prevent Covid-19 in humans and the drug is not an anti-viral medication.

Ah, "while there are human uses...."

So, IOW, it's not just a livestock drug as the headline screams.

Ivermectin

Ivermectin, sold under the brand name Stromectol among others, is a medication that is used to treat parasite infestations. In humans, this includes head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis.

Assholes.

[Mik]

Indeed.

Saw NBC news this morning. They described Biden as ‘steadfast’ on his strategy in Afghanistan. I cannot help but wonder what their word choices would have been if t were Trump.

[George K]

@mik said in Ivermectin:

I cannot help but wonder what their word choices would have been if t were Trump.

"Stubborn"
"Inflexible"
"Entrenched"

Those work?