Does he really believe it?
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Well if the game is to compare what Trump actually did with anything anyone who disagrees with you simply proposed, then sure.
I’m just not sure what the point of that game is. You’re a little old for Calvinball.
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@jon-nyc said in Does he really believe it?:
Well if the game is to compare what Trump actually did with anything anyone who disagrees with you simply proposed, then sure.
I’m just not sure what the point of that game is. You’re a little old for Calvinball.
I’m trying to explain to you why most people could care less what Trump is doing. So I think you get they don’t, maybe they are too stupid to be alarmed in your opinion. But also understand many people saw what was done to Trump and recognize it is not morally justifiable no matter how undesirable Trump is. For some reason you inflated him to be the big bad wolf, it is and and never was. The anxiety I think comes from within.
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@jon-nyc said in Does he really believe it?:
@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
Yes, a lack of objectivity would seem the fundamental thing. I sense you still believe in your own objectivity regarding Trump. I think few on this board would agree with you about that, but we all create our own realities, just like Trump.
This is very typical of how the phrase “TDS” is used here. Just as a hand-wavy ad hominem for the shitters out there that aren’t on the train.
You would do well to taboo the phrase (as in the game ‘taboo’), and force yourself to be specific in your disagreements when people criticize Trump. Say specifically why the criticism is unfounded, rather than gripe generally at the idea that he’s being criticized. It would be interesting to see.
I do that. When I say that TDS caused people to take in stride as righteous cultural warfare the, for instance, NYT op ed and subsequent book about anonymous adults in the white house actively subverting the president, I meant that TDS caused that emotional reaction to what amounted to bragging about what was, as portrayed, way more of a "constitutional crisis" than Trump ever directly represented. Then there's the shameless Russian collusion nonsense. We cataloguers of TDS never had to scum the depths of Twitter to find pure neuroses.
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On the other hand, when I respond to mindless hatred, I'm happy to just call the TDS for what it is, and move on. But you haven't even acknowledged there is such a thing as TDS. You'll claim that conversation is meaningless in that definitions are not agreed upon, while happily giggling at "Deranged Magat Syndrome" sufferers all day. Or sometimes "resident crazy uncle", or, in the past, as you've dismissed me, those who've fallen down the rabbit hole of mindless tribalism - a claim you made because of the gestalt of your impressions of my posts, rather than any details about specific opinions. Such details and specifics are now what you request of me, and my gestalt impression of TDS sufferers. I would say "fair enough", but it's really not. You have a knack for condescension and elitism, and again if you don't see that about yourself, you are one of the few.
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@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
On the other hand, when I respond to mindless hatred, I'm happy to just call the TDS for what it is, and move on. But you haven't even acknowledged there is such a thing as TDS. You'll claim that conversation is meaningless in that definitions are not agreed upon, while happily giggling at "Deranged Magat Syndrome" sufferers all day. Or sometimes "resident crazy uncle", or, in the past, as you've dismissed me, those who've fallen down the rabbit hole of mindless tribalism - a claim you made because of the gestalt of your impressions of my posts, rather than any details about specific opinions. Such details and specifics are now what you request of me, and my gestalt impression of TDS sufferers. I would say "fair enough", but it's really not. You have a knack for condescension and elitism, and again if you don't see that about yourself, you are one of the few.
Actually Jon of late presents us with these trolley problems where we are supposed to see imaginary lives on one of the tracks. It’s a thought experiment within a thought experiment.
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@loki said in Does he really believe it?:
@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
On the other hand, when I respond to mindless hatred, I'm happy to just call the TDS for what it is, and move on. But you haven't even acknowledged there is such a thing as TDS. You'll claim that conversation is meaningless in that definitions are not agreed upon, while happily giggling at "Deranged Magat Syndrome" sufferers all day. Or sometimes "resident crazy uncle", or, in the past, as you've dismissed me, those who've fallen down the rabbit hole of mindless tribalism - a claim you made because of the gestalt of your impressions of my posts, rather than any details about specific opinions. Such details and specifics are now what you request of me, and my gestalt impression of TDS sufferers. I would say "fair enough", but it's really not. You have a knack for condescension and elitism, and again if you don't see that about yourself, you are one of the few.
Actually Jon of late presents us with these trolley problems where we are supposed to see imaginary lives on one of the tracks. It’s a thought experiment within a thought experiment.
Imaginary Lives Matter.
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I’ll just add. The Russia collusion stuff and impeachment was precipitated by the idiocy of Trump.
Let’s remember that Sessions recused himself, Trump went on Lester Holt and said stupid shit and Rosenstein (not the NYT) appointed a special council.
The Trump conversations to Ukraine were also idiotic
Now - it didn’t really amount to much because it was all out of stupidity on Trump’s part and not villainous corruption. But it’s not like it was a figment of some people’s imagination.
I’m saying this, because Trump’s actions now are not an analogue of what happened to him. They’re different and went over board in different ways. It’s a different thing though.
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@copper said in Does he really believe it?:
It's kind of early to be that drunk
It's five o'clock somewhere...
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Nope, anybody that rubbed their hands in glee at Russia! Russia! Russia, while knowing there was nothing to it, is nothing more than a partisan hack.
In fact, they are worse than a partisan hack. These people have allowed hate for the individual to be placed ahead of the rule of law and what is best for the country. At this point, I would never trust them to do what is honorable or right, not if it meant furthering a political agenda...
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@xenon said in Does he really believe it?:
@jolly who is “they”? Rod Rosenstein?
That's a question for you to answer, isn't it?
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@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
@jon-nyc said in Does he really believe it?:
But to actually believe your enemies just plain cheated you?
He watched the four year cultural blitzkrieg mounted against him, which was proof of motivation to do whatever it took to get rid of him. It's not such a far step from realizing the fact that you're competing with people who are motivated to cheat and would do so shamelessly, even righteously, to believing they did. Surely a psychological allergy to losing is at least something you can understand, jon.
What was his excuse the first time he said there were 3-5 million fake votes in 2016?
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@xenon said in Does he really believe it?:
@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
@jon-nyc said in Does he really believe it?:
But to actually believe your enemies just plain cheated you?
He watched the four year cultural blitzkrieg mounted against him, which was proof of motivation to do whatever it took to get rid of him. It's not such a far step from realizing the fact that you're competing with people who are motivated to cheat and would do so shamelessly, even righteously, to believing they did. Surely a psychological allergy to losing is at least something you can understand, jon.
What was his excuse the first time he said there were 3-5 million fake votes in 2016?
Well I'm not particularly motivated to make excuses for what I've already admitted was a predictable thing he would do. But, the cultural warfare and the broad-scale TDS existed since the moment everybody started taking him seriously as a potential next president. So it predates whatever claim you're speaking of.
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@horace what specific blitzkrieg is Trump reacting to?
Yes - many people have often compromised their own values and previous political positions to just go against Trump. I think this is what “TDS” boils to.
But what specific assaults, beyond op-eds in WaPo and being shat on by celebrities, are you referring to that help contextualize his current behavior?
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@xenon said in Does he really believe it?:
@horace what specific blitzkrieg is Trump reacting to?
Yes - many people have often compromised their own values and previous political positions to just go against Trump. I think this is what “TDS” boils to.
But what specific assaults, beyond op-eds in WaPo and being shat on by celebrities, are you referring to that help contextualize his current behavior?
You want me to put into a few concise words the broad scale cultural warfare Trump has been the target of? You need to be convinced of that? Man, I lived through it. I could never have remained viable as a productive social element at my job if I'd have been as outspoken a Trump supporter as many of my colleagues (and bosses) were of being a Trump hater.
Again, an inability to accept losing is part of Trump's character, and is regrettable. But IMO it will prove ineffectual and he will go away, thus not establishing any worrisome precedent. I understand it looks petulant and whiny.
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@horace said in Does he really believe it?:
@xenon said in Does he really believe it?:
@horace what specific blitzkrieg is Trump reacting to?
Yes - many people have often compromised their own values and previous political positions to just go against Trump. I think this is what “TDS” boils to.
But what specific assaults, beyond op-eds in WaPo and being shat on by celebrities, are you referring to that help contextualize his current behavior?
You want me to put into a few concise words the broad scale cultural warfare Trump has been the target of? You need to be convinced of that? Man, I lived through it. I could never have remained viable as a productive social element at my job if I'd have been as outspoken a Trump supporter as many of my colleagues (and bosses) were of being a Trump hater.
Again, an inability to accept losing is part of Trump's character, and is regrettable. But IMO it will prove ineffectual and he will go away, thus not establishing any worrisome precedent. I understand it looks petulant and whiny.
Right, but - you fail to ascribe any of the “cultural blowback” to Trump. You complain that people have been throwing feces at him - in an unprecedented manner (maybe true). But you fail to mention he’s had his dick out spraying them in the face with piss.
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@jolly said in Does he really believe it?:
Nope, anybody that rubbed their hands in glee at Russia! Russia! Russia, while knowing there was nothing to it, is nothing more than a partisan hack.
In fact, they are worse than a partisan hack. These people have allowed hate for the individual to be placed ahead of the rule of law and what is best for the country. At this point, I would never trust them to do what is honorable or right, not if it meant furthering a political agenda...
Russia Russia Russia was Hillary’s playbook from the beginning. Some hack was hired to write a fake dossier and that became the overriding obsession for this country for four years. And now suddenly our country is threatened. Jesus.
But China, nothing to see here.
