Can we at least end one narrative?
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@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
A few points...Trump is not an ultra-conservative. Never has been. Especially not a fiscal conservative.
Bush 43? I remember the media being much tougher on him before 9/11, than on Obama. Trump just accelerated an already existing trend.
Nick Sandman? You really need to do some background reading. I think it will bring some clarity to the current state of the media.
Lastly, do you realize almost half the country voted for Trump? And I mean voted for. Probably about 75% of the votes he received were from people who liked his policies and political views. Those people still exist today.
Re-education and coercion by the MSM will continue. Ueber allen!
I checked out the Nick Sandmann case, and yes obviously that seems to be an instance of completely unacceptable and dishonest journalism.
Yes, I do realize almost half of those who voted, voted for Trump. This is something that I do find puzzling. There's a lot about this man to dislike, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that many people really hate him. And when you hate him, it is of course very difficult to have sympathy for those who voted for him.
On the other hand, whereas I would never vote for him, I do understand why other people voted for him over Clinton. I even get how he got through the primaries in 2016. He was something different, seemed refreshing and worth giving a try. Someone who would really shake things up (Drain the swamp!). And it seems like he did shake things up! But in a way that did not do your country much good in my opinion. And now it seems like all reason has left both sides and you're all blaming each other (although I believe - and hope - that my perception of the magnitude of it, is way overestimated due to how the media reports this).
And so, the left hates the right for voting for the guy they hate, and the right hates the left because of it. So the right continues to vote for Trump, and the left continues to hate the right for it. But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion. He may be good for the economy and have certain policies that the right likes (hell, he may even have policies that the left likes), but that man is not made to keep a country together. The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Anyway, I can only look at this from far away through the eyes of our media and hope everything is not as heated in the US as they make it seem.
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion.
Definitely it won't. What it does is prevent America from wading further into the possibility of becoming the next Weimar republic. It'd look very different from Germany of course, but if enough of the militant left start getting elected, that's the kind of road they'd take us down. Who knows what that looks like but no thanks.
Trump's no threat whatsoever. Look at how many people hate his guts. Pretty hard to get away with much under that much scrutiny. On the left you have a shitload of truly scary behavior (Nick Sandmann. No I don't mean the DC incident, I mean the problems with his college after he won his court cases) that's being accepted and condoned.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion.
Definitely it won't. What it does is prevent America from wading further into the possibility of becoming the next Weimar republic. It'd look very different from Germany of course, but if enough of the militant left start getting elected, that's the kind of road they'd take us down. Who knows what that looks like but no thanks.
Trump's no threat whatsoever. Look at how many people hate his guts. Pretty hard to get away with much under that much scrutiny. On the left you have a shitload of truly scary behavior (Nick Sandmann. No I don't mean the DC incident, I mean the problems with his college after he won his court cases) that's being accepted and condoned.
@Aqua-Letifer It’s been said in other threads here, but the results of the election do seem to point towards a rejection of Trump and not at all an acceptance of the (over)progressive left. In that sense, Trump may have done a great deal of damage. If a much less polarizing republican had been elected in 2016, maybe there would not have been a democrat elected now. Impossible to say for certain of course, but the fact that Trump didn’t manage to win the popular vote against Clinton (who was not very popular and one of the worst presidential candidates in the history of the US according to some...), does tell me that his victory wasn’t due to his overwhelming popularity...
Anyway, the fact that the anticipated blue wave seems to be limited to the presidential election, is hopeful, no? Based on these results, I predict a republican president is elected again 4 years from now if the issues you describe continue and perhaps get worse. It seems there is growing awareness around this, and a willingness to vote against it.
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I would hardly call a .0116% margin a rejection.
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@Aqua-Letifer It’s been said in other threads here, but the results of the election do seem to point towards a rejection of Trump and not at all an acceptance of the (over)progressive left. In that sense, Trump may have done a great deal of damage. If a much less polarizing republican had been elected in 2016, maybe there would not have been a democrat elected now. Impossible to say for certain of course, but the fact that Trump didn’t manage to win the popular vote against Clinton (who was not very popular and one of the worst presidential candidates in the history of the US according to some...), does tell me that his victory wasn’t due to his overwhelming popularity...
Anyway, the fact that the anticipated blue wave seems to be limited to the presidential election, is hopeful, no? Based on these results, I predict a republican president is elected again 4 years from now if the issues you describe continue and perhaps get worse. It seems there is growing awareness around this, and a willingness to vote against it.
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
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@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
@brenda said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
Never forget which candidate, during the debates, called the other one "a clown" and told him to "shut up."
I guess that counts as occasionally impolite, right?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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As a people, we would make significant progress if we could find it in ourselves to acknowledge that both X-tremes, left and right, are problematical and burdensome. It isn't a matter of, oh the left is more awful or the right is more awful -- when what either of those positions boils down to is lack of understanding, lack of meeting of the minds, and disagreement with ME.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@brenda said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
Never forget which candidate, during the debates, called the other one "a clown" and told him to "shut up."
I guess that counts as occasionally impolite, right?
@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@brenda said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
Never forget which candidate, during the debates, called the other one "a clown" and told him to "shut up."
I guess that counts as occasionally impolite, right?
George, are you actually trying to claim that Donald Trump behaved with more class than Joe Biden during this election period?
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@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@brenda said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
Never forget which candidate, during the debates, called the other one "a clown" and told him to "shut up."
I guess that counts as occasionally impolite, right?
George, are you actually trying to claim that Donald Trump behaved with more class than Joe Biden during this election period?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
George, are you actually trying to claim that Donald Trump behaved with more class than Joe Biden during this election period?
Of course not. I'm just disputing the civility that Biden claims, you chump.
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Civility is a relative construct, like an Alabama wedding.
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Civility is a relative construct, like an Alabama wedding.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Civility is a relative construct, like an Alabama wedding.
When he insulted the 70 million people who voted for Trump, he has no standing in saying "no blue or red states."
Remember when Obama said that? Good times, good times, bitter clinger.
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If the two candidates had 'asshole' jars, where they had to put a dollar in every time they acted like an asshole, I think I know who'd be paying for the WH Christmas party.
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If the two candidates had 'asshole' jars, where they had to put a dollar in every time they acted like an asshole, I think I know who'd be paying for the WH Christmas party.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
If the two candidates had 'asshole' jars, where they had to put a dollar in every time they acted like an asshole, I think I know who'd be paying for the WH Christmas party.
I agree. But they're both assholes, and for one to pretend he's not is pretty funny.
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As a people, we would make significant progress if we could find it in ourselves to acknowledge that both X-tremes, left and right, are problematical and burdensome. It isn't a matter of, oh the left is more awful or the right is more awful -- when what either of those positions boils down to is lack of understanding, lack of meeting of the minds, and disagreement with ME.
@Catseye3 said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
As a people, we would make significant progress if we could find it in ourselves to acknowledge that both X-tremes, left and right, are problematical and burdensome. It isn't a matter of, oh the left is more awful or the right is more awful -- when what either of those positions boils down to is lack of understanding, lack of meeting of the minds, and disagreement with ME.
Left and right aren't extremes. That's the whole point of a 2 party system. It's when a side goes too far to the left or right and become extremists. The center has shifted over the years to the left. I watched as the right became what used to be the center, and the left move further left. Under Obama the left moved further left, and the corruption the Clintons brought to the democrat party became weaponized by Obama. This hard left shift gave the Socialists an opening, the Republican had become a mixed bag of true conservatives, those who chose to move left so they could get the perks afforded them, and some who were quite frankly morons. We as a nation have moved the center so far to the left that anyone born after 1990 dont even see it. The left is SO far left now that they see any hint of being a conservative as being an extremist. Yet the last good president the democrat party produced was John Kennedy, and he would be rejected by today's democrat party as a far right extremist. I don't think he would even want to be a democrat today.
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JFK's monetary policy alone, would place him far to the right of Biden who is considered a centrist in the Demonrat party.
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JFK's monetary policy alone, would place him far to the right of Biden who is considered a centrist in the Demonrat party.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
Sure, and the left should take a long hard look at the number of people who voted for Trump. But does that matter when wondering about the motivation of those who changed their 2016 Trump vote to a Biden vote this year? I would expect that the ones who did were mostly swing voters. Maybe they bought the narrative of the (far) left, but somehow I doubt that given that the same flip was not observed in senate or house. Maybe they feel the same about Trump as 4 years ago or even think he did better than expected, but simply preferred Biden and his policies. I doubt that for the same reason. That’s why I think those voters rejected Trump. Obviously the 70 million who voted for Trump, did not reject him.
Also, apart from “the dems have stolen the election with massive voter fraud!!!” I haven’t seen any other theories. Did he mess up the Covid crisis and was it that that cost him the election? Was it just bad luck with the Covid crisis that messed up the economy but the voters still blamed him? Were there simply too many of his policies they didn’t like?
