Can we at least end one narrative?
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I just got off the phone with my parents. They're retired. Earlier this week they went and took a walk at a state park, bought some hoagies for dinner, normal shit. They met their neighbors for bocce and other old people stuff.
My mom told me she is utterly terrified of Trump supporters. She's legit worried about a revolt. She and my dad both think there's a real chance Trump voters will start driving around assaulting people. They have second thoughts about leaving the house. They think it would be a good idea to start pre-emptively getting a list together of the local diehard Trump supporters on social media so that the police can keep an eye on them.
My parents aren't senile. They're normal Americans. I'm sorry, no, they got this shit from the media, social and mainstream, and it's a goddamn problem. If anyone wants to know how in the world Trump has so many supporters, this is exactly how. People are so tired of the left's horseshit they'll emphatically support any open opposition to their narrative.
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Thank you for explaining your perspective. I appreciate it.
Also - this has been fun! Nice to talk you all (or at least a small number of you) again.
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@Moonbat said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
We should have microtargetted facebook adverts that are aimed at convicing people that others with different political views are not the enemy. We should employ an armada of anti-trolls crossing social and cultural divides to write comments espousing common humanity in youtube videos and in the comments to news articles.
I absolutely agree but there's no money in it. There's massive money to be made by ginning up controversy, though, so that's what we have.
Cracked is an internet footnote now precisely because it didn't get on the Trump content train. They completely admit this as a mistake. Meanwhile, CNN is hanging on because getting people terrified is a great way to keep them glued to the screen.
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@Moonbat said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Thank you for explaining your perspective. I appreciate it.
Also - this has been fun! Nice to talk you all (or at least a small number of you) again.
Stick around man!
(...you don't do D&D by any chance, do you?)
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@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
A few points...Trump is not an ultra-conservative. Never has been. Especially not a fiscal conservative.
Bush 43? I remember the media being much tougher on him before 9/11, than on Obama. Trump just accelerated an already existing trend.
Nick Sandman? You really need to do some background reading. I think it will bring some clarity to the current state of the media.
Lastly, do you realize almost half the country voted for Trump? And I mean voted for. Probably about 75% of the votes he received were from people who liked his policies and political views. Those people still exist today.
Re-education and coercion by the MSM will continue. Ueber allen!
I checked out the Nick Sandmann case, and yes obviously that seems to be an instance of completely unacceptable and dishonest journalism.
Yes, I do realize almost half of those who voted, voted for Trump. This is something that I do find puzzling. There's a lot about this man to dislike, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that many people really hate him. And when you hate him, it is of course very difficult to have sympathy for those who voted for him.
On the other hand, whereas I would never vote for him, I do understand why other people voted for him over Clinton. I even get how he got through the primaries in 2016. He was something different, seemed refreshing and worth giving a try. Someone who would really shake things up (Drain the swamp!). And it seems like he did shake things up! But in a way that did not do your country much good in my opinion. And now it seems like all reason has left both sides and you're all blaming each other (although I believe - and hope - that my perception of the magnitude of it, is way overestimated due to how the media reports this).
And so, the left hates the right for voting for the guy they hate, and the right hates the left because of it. So the right continues to vote for Trump, and the left continues to hate the right for it. But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion. He may be good for the economy and have certain policies that the right likes (hell, he may even have policies that the left likes), but that man is not made to keep a country together. The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Anyway, I can only look at this from far away through the eyes of our media and hope everything is not as heated in the US as they make it seem.
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@Moonbat said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
The problem in the black community left racism behind a long time ago. The reason that the black community has higher crime rates, lower literacy, lower wealth and are worse off by many metrics, is because Father's Day is the most confusing day of the year in most inner city black communities.
Racism does not make 77% of black mothers give birth to illegitimate children. Racism does not create a culture, where education is not valued and children are urged to act stupidly in class, in order to get a "crazy check". Racism does not make black women abort 27.1% of their babies (and Sanger smiled). Racism does not stand in the HR office and deny black applicants decent jobs...In fact, most businesses would fight over a well-qualified black applicant.
Opportunity is rampant in America for black people. they just need to take advantage of it.We as a society have bent over backwards to provide that opportunity, so much so, that many very bright and prosperous black people complain there is now a taint on their accomplishments...A perception they have become what they are through lowered standards and preference.Culture is heritable, wealth is heritable, preference for education is heritable. These things don't come out of a vacuum. You cannot pretend that the culture of today is not a function of the environment of yesterday.
I tend to agree that social policies that focus primarily on quotas and explicit handouts are not likely to achieve much and that truly raising the standard of living of a population of people is a difficult thing. Never the less collectively America has failed spectacularly at this.
There was somebody who raised the standard of living for many blacks. More than that standard had been raised in many years.
His name is Donald J. Trump.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
A few points...Trump is not an ultra-conservative. Never has been. Especially not a fiscal conservative.
Bush 43? I remember the media being much tougher on him before 9/11, than on Obama. Trump just accelerated an already existing trend.
Nick Sandman? You really need to do some background reading. I think it will bring some clarity to the current state of the media.
Lastly, do you realize almost half the country voted for Trump? And I mean voted for. Probably about 75% of the votes he received were from people who liked his policies and political views. Those people still exist today.
Re-education and coercion by the MSM will continue. Ueber allen!
I checked out the Nick Sandmann case, and yes obviously that seems to be an instance of completely unacceptable and dishonest journalism.
Yes, I do realize almost half of those who voted, voted for Trump. This is something that I do find puzzling. There's a lot about this man to dislike, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that many people really hate him. And when you hate him, it is of course very difficult to have sympathy for those who voted for him.
On the other hand, whereas I would never vote for him, I do understand why other people voted for him over Clinton. I even get how he got through the primaries in 2016. He was something different, seemed refreshing and worth giving a try. Someone who would really shake things up (Drain the swamp!). And it seems like he did shake things up! But in a way that did not do your country much good in my opinion. And now it seems like all reason has left both sides and you're all blaming each other (although I believe - and hope - that my perception of the magnitude of it, is way overestimated due to how the media reports this).
And so, the left hates the right for voting for the guy they hate, and the right hates the left because of it. So the right continues to vote for Trump, and the left continues to hate the right for it. But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion. He may be good for the economy and have certain policies that the right likes (hell, he may even have policies that the left likes), but that man is not made to keep a country together. The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Anyway, I can only look at this from far away through the eyes of our media and hope everything is not as heated in the US as they make it seem.
I don't think you realize the disdain and disgust the Left in America feels for people on the Right. The Basket of Deplorables.
Biden will not improve this. Harris will accelerate it, when she becomes President.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Speak on, brother.As Trump recedes in the rearview, the perception of his influence will change. Less frenzy, more analysis, without him around to keep the waters roiled.
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@Catseye3 said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Speak on, brother.As Trump recedes in the rearview, the perception of his influence will change. Less frenzy, more analysis, without him around to keep the waters roiled.
That makes sense cat’s-eye and @Nunatax
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@Catseye3 said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
The right seems to remain blind to that, and the left remains blind to their own flaws that nearly got Trump reelected. Both sides seem to be in dire need of introspection, but neither side seems to realize it.
Speak on, brother.As Trump recedes in the rearview, the perception of his influence will change. Less frenzy, more analysis, without him around to keep the waters roiled.
Trump News Network
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@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
I don't think you realize the disdain and disgust the Left in America feels for people on the Right. The Basket of Deplorables.
Biden will not improve this. Harris will accelerate it, when she becomes President.
Well, it's hard to get a feeling for the level of disdain that the left feels for the right from so far away. But from what Aqua has described, it seems like there is indeed a real problem there. To me this seems like the action-reaction I described earlier, given that Trump is quite a controversial man to say the least. At the same time, I also think Trump just made this speed up (I see him as a symptom, not really a root cause). Over the years I have come to realize that on many topics there hardly seems to be a middle road in the US. I wonder if this is because of the two party system. Every country has nutjobs that hold extreme views. They can usually join political parties that never really stand a chance against the more moderate ones. But when there's only two parties (and an independent option that no one really seems to care about), they don't have anywhere else to go. In elections in which literally every vote counts, neither side wants to alienate these people. That makes them feel empowered and off it goes, pretty extreme and often ridiculous ideas start to get normalized and find more and more traction.
You could be right that Biden is not going to improve things and I don't know about Harris (simply don't know her well enough). It could very well still get worse. But I really doubt that a 4 year Biden presidency would come even close to doing the damage that four more years of Trump would do. And if after these 4 years there's a need to elect a republican again, I'm sure that that is what will happen. I do hope the choice will be made for a moderate one who at least tries to bring the two sides together.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Jolly said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
I don't think you realize the disdain and disgust the Left in America feels for people on the Right. The Basket of Deplorables.
Biden will not improve this. Harris will accelerate it, when she becomes President.
Well, it's hard to get a feeling for the level of disdain that the left feels for the right from so far away. But from what Aqua has described, it seems like there is indeed a real problem there. To me this seems like the action-reaction I described earlier, given that Trump is quite a controversial man to say the least. At the same time, I also think Trump just made this speed up (I see him as a symptom, not really a root cause). Over the years I have come to realize that on many topics there hardly seems to be a middle road in the US. I wonder if this is because of the two party system. Every country has nutjobs that hold extreme views. They can usually join political parties that never really stand a chance against the more moderate ones. But when there's only two parties (and an independent option that no one really seems to care about), they don't have anywhere else to go. In elections in which literally every vote counts, neither side wants to alienate these people. That makes them feel empowered and off it goes, pretty extreme and often ridiculous ideas start to get normalized and find more and more traction.
You could be right that Biden is not going to improve things and I don't know about Harris (simply don't know her well enough). It could very well still get worse. But I really doubt that a 4 year Biden presidency would come even close to doing the damage that four more years of Trump would do. And if after these 4 years there's a need to elect a republican again, I'm sure that that is what will happen. I do hope the choice will be made for a moderate one who at least tries to bring the two sides together.
Barring war or some similar cataclysmic event, it simply cannot be done.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
But four more years of this guy are not going to improve this in my opinion.
Definitely it won't. What it does is prevent America from wading further into the possibility of becoming the next Weimar republic. It'd look very different from Germany of course, but if enough of the militant left start getting elected, that's the kind of road they'd take us down. Who knows what that looks like but no thanks.
Trump's no threat whatsoever. Look at how many people hate his guts. Pretty hard to get away with much under that much scrutiny. On the left you have a shitload of truly scary behavior (Nick Sandmann. No I don't mean the DC incident, I mean the problems with his college after he won his court cases) that's being accepted and condoned.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer It’s been said in other threads here, but the results of the election do seem to point towards a rejection of Trump and not at all an acceptance of the (over)progressive left. In that sense, Trump may have done a great deal of damage. If a much less polarizing republican had been elected in 2016, maybe there would not have been a democrat elected now. Impossible to say for certain of course, but the fact that Trump didn’t manage to win the popular vote against Clinton (who was not very popular and one of the worst presidential candidates in the history of the US according to some...), does tell me that his victory wasn’t due to his overwhelming popularity...
Anyway, the fact that the anticipated blue wave seems to be limited to the presidential election, is hopeful, no? Based on these results, I predict a republican president is elected again 4 years from now if the issues you describe continue and perhaps get worse. It seems there is growing awareness around this, and a willingness to vote against it.
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I would hardly call a .0116% margin a rejection.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
a rejection of Trump
More people voted for Trump than for any other President in history. I'm more than willing to concede that he lost the popular vote, but 70,000,000 votes hardly qualifies as a "rejection."
And those 70 million were called "chumps" by the apparent winner.
Uniter, indeed.
Indeed. +1
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
