Trump to unveil healthcare plan
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 18:18 last edited by
Your first thought when you get sick or have a serious accident shouldn't be 'Oh God, can I afford this?'.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 18:59 last edited by
If only there was a way to buy insurance that paid 80% of everything until I had spent a total of 1,000 dollars and then it paid 100% of everything....
I wonder if you could sell something like that for 150 bucks a month...
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:00 last edited by
I bet they could do it if the government got out of the way......
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If only there was a way to buy insurance that paid 80% of everything until I had spent a total of 1,000 dollars and then it paid 100% of everything....
I wonder if you could sell something like that for 150 bucks a month...
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:05 last edited by@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
If only there was a way to buy insurance that paid 80% of everything until I had spent a total of 1,000 dollars and then it paid 100% of everything....
I wonder if you could sell something like that for 150 bucks a month...
This is entirely possible if the insurance company is allowed to refuse extending coverage to people who was sick, is sick, or is likely to be sick soon and is allowed to terminate coverage for any existing customer who become sick.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:07 last edited by
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I bet they could do it if the government got out of the way......
They can do it if the government removes any regulation that prevents the insurance company from refusing coverage to people who was sick, is sick, or is likely to be sick soon and terminating coverage for any existing customer who become sick.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:08 last edited by
But if the feds were the single payer there would be unlimited money and unlimited healthcare for all
Then, since there is no limit on spending, we could get everyone a Cadillac to drive to the hospital
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:09 last edited by xenon
A few basic trends here are the drivers:
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aging populations
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more advanced (pricey) therapies coming out everyday across all diseases
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aging populations need the most therapies
In the U.S., the standard of care is always "the best that money can buy".
So the cost of insurance is going to keep increasing - unless some insurance company out there wants to compete on different dimension (e.g., lower or more efficient standard of care) the cost will keep increasing.
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I bet they could do it if the government got out of the way......
They can do it if the government removes any regulation that prevents the insurance company from refusing coverage to people who was sick, is sick, or is likely to be sick soon and terminating coverage for any existing customer who become sick.
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:13 last edited by@Axtremus said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I bet they could do it if the government got out of the way......
They can do it if the government removes any regulation that prevents the insurance company from refusing coverage to people who was sick, is sick, or is likely to be sick soon and terminating coverage for any existing customer who become sick.
Nah. Do it like they used to. No pre existing coverage for the first 6 months, then it's covered.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:25 last edited by xenon
Here’s a specific example. Cancer drug prices by launch year.
The care itself is getting more expensive. What’s the mechanism to control it?
How much is a life worth?
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@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I think that the republics controlled BOTH the US house and senate for the first two years.
To say that Senator McCain was the only reason the new republic healthcare plan is not in place is nave. The republics had 52 people in the senate in 2016-2018. Plus control of the house PLUS the President.
@taiwan_girl said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I think that the republics controlled BOTH the US house and senate for the first two years.
To say that Senator McCain was the only reason the new republic healthcare plan is not in place is nave. The republics had 52 people in the senate in 2016-2018. Plus control of the house PLUS the President.
McCain was THE deciding vote.
Do keep up, please.
He was one of many votes.
It is one thing to say to get rid of ACA, but without alternate, it is not a surprise the overall majority of the Republic Controlled Senate voted against it.
If Senator McCain were so powerful, he would have been president
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:36 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I think that the republics controlled BOTH the US house and senate for the first two years.
To say that Senator McCain was the only reason the new republic healthcare plan is not in place is nave. The republics had 52 people in the senate in 2016-2018. Plus control of the house PLUS the President.
@taiwan_girl said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I think that the republics controlled BOTH the US house and senate for the first two years.
To say that Senator McCain was the only reason the new republic healthcare plan is not in place is nave. The republics had 52 people in the senate in 2016-2018. Plus control of the house PLUS the President.
McCain was THE deciding vote.
Do keep up, please.
He was one of many votes.
It is one thing to say to get rid of ACA, but without alternate, it is not a surprise the overall majority of the Republic Controlled Senate voted against it.
If Senator McCain were so powerful, he would have been president
God Bless you, sometimes your grasp of U.S. politics may not be as good as my grasp of Taiwan politics.
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Here’s a specific example. Cancer drug prices by launch year.
The care itself is getting more expensive. What’s the mechanism to control it?
How much is a life worth?
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:36 last edited by@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
What’s the mechanism to control it?
As Russ Roberts puts it, they charge 'what the political system will bear.'
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But if the feds were the single payer there would be unlimited money and unlimited healthcare for all
Then, since there is no limit on spending, we could get everyone a Cadillac to drive to the hospital
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:37 last edited by@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
But if the feds were the single payer there would be unlimited money and unlimited healthcare for all
Then, since there is no limit on spending, we could get everyone a Cadillac to drive to the hospital
I want a Jaaag...With the supplied mechanic, of course.
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There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:38 last edited by@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:42 last edited by@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
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@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:43 last edited by@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
Your money, your life.
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
Your money, your life.
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:52 last edited by xenon@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
Your money, your life.
Well - my last point should have - the consumer actually doesn't have the option to choose their standard of care.
It's what the doctor wants (they don't think about cost) - for prices negotiated with insurance in advance.
So yes, your money. But if you're covered, there's few other decisions you can make.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 19:54 last edited by xenon
The market allocates scarce resources to those willing to pay the most for them.
That mechanism is broken in healthcare insurance - because there's no concept of willingness to pay.
Either you're covered or not. If you're covered, it costs what it costs.
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 20:15 last edited by Copper
Cost of insurance coverage varies from zero to tens of thousands per year.
Pick your coverage based on your willingness, and ability, to pay.
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Cost of insurance coverage varies from zero to tens of thousands per year.
Pick your coverage based on your willingness, and ability, to pay.
wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 20:17 last edited by@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Cost of insurance coverage varies from zero to tens of thousands per year.
Pick your coverage based on your willingness, and ability, to pay.
You’re generally choosing a level of economic risk (deductible, out of pocket, network, etc.), not a standard of care
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wrote on 23 Oct 2020, 20:40 last edited by
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
There's lots wrong with socialized medical systems, but that's by design.
There's some sort of mechanism in those systems that say "we only have $X, so what level of care do we need to deliver". As Phibes says, its underfunded. But that's almost by design.
In the U.S. - insurance defaults to covering the best treatments and the cost gets pushed to the private sector. And the cost continually grows. Either you can afford it or you can't.
It's not like the average consumer can negotiate the particulars of healthcare ( doctor rates, treatments alternatives, etc). - unlike other big purchases (home, cars, etc.)
Actually, you can.
The average consumer can have a pretty good perspective a on the size of a dwelling they want for their family of 4... the location... etc... the cost tradeoffs.
The average consumer can have a pretty good idea of how to think through similar things for a car.
How would an average consumer start to think about what they should spend on their heart disease or cancer treatment?
If they could figure that out - how much is an increased chance of survival worth?
Your money, your life.
Well - my last point should have - the consumer actually doesn't have the option to choose their standard of care.
It's what the doctor wants (they don't think about cost) - for prices negotiated with insurance in advance.
So yes, your money. But if you're covered, there's few other decisions you can make.
Options of care?
Ask Jon why he had his surgery where he did. Ask George if he could have told you who was the best ortho in his area. When I had my surgery, I weighed and decided on the hospital, the procedure and the surgeon.
Now, sure, whatever insurance you have only pays a set fee to a negotiated list of providers. It's definitely not the take it or leave it of socialized medicine.
OTOH, if you don't have insurance, prices can be negotiated.