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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. Puzzle Time - Election Edition

Puzzle Time - Election Edition

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
    #16

    That doesn’t make any sense. “The successful paths are the remaining ones” isn’t true. It’s a small subset of the remaining ones.

    Remember you have to stay in the lead the whole time.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • KlausK Offline
      KlausK Offline
      Klaus
      wrote on last edited by Klaus
      #17

      By "lead to a tie" I mean: It ever happens that K is not in the lead. Hence by definition the remaining ones must be the ones where K is always leading.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #18

        No, there are plenty of cases where K has the lead, loses the lead for a while, and gains it back.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
        • KlausK Offline
          KlausK Offline
          Klaus
          wrote on last edited by Klaus
          #19

          Here's how to construct the 1:1 correspondence.

          Assume a path that leads to a tie, say

          KKHH...

          which yields a tie after 4 votes.

          Now take every vote until the tie and flip K with H and vice versa.
          The remainder stays the same.

          HHKK...

          That's the corresponding path starting with H.

          That correspondence works both ways because every path starting with H must eventually be tied at some point (because K has more votes).

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            No, there are plenty of cases where K has the lead, loses the lead for a while, and gains it back.

            KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #20

            @jon-nyc said in Puzzle Time - Election Edition:

            No, there are plenty of cases where K has the lead, loses the lead for a while, and gains it back.

            Exactly. Those cases shouldn't count as successful. And I don't count them, since they are among the paths where there is at least one tie in between.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • KlausK Offline
              KlausK Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by Klaus
              #21

              Let me illustrate that my solution works with a simpler case:

              Let's say that K wins with 3 votes against 2 votes for H.

              According to my solution, the probability would be (3-2)/(3+2) = 20%.

              Let's consider all 10 possible sequences:

              HKKKH
              HKKHK
              HKHKK
              HHKKK
              KHKKH
              KHKHK
              KHHKK
              KKHKH
              KKHHK
              KKKHH

              Only two of these are successful, namely:

              KKHKH
              KKKHH

              2 out of 10; exactly the 20% my formula predicted.

              You can also see the 1:1 correspondence of the remaining 8 ones: There's an equal number of paths starting with H and unsuccessful paths starting with K, namely 4 each. Flip at the first tie and you get the corresponding other one. Here are the four pairs of the correspondence.

              HKKKH - KHKKH
              HKKHK - KHKKH
              HKHKK - KHHKK
              HHKKK - KKHHK

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #22

                Ah, I thought you meant those that ended in a tie. Not those that tied at all. Let me look at it again after I’m done with lunch

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  Ah, I thought you meant those that ended in a tie. Not those that tied at all. Let me look at it again after I’m done with lunch

                  KlausK Offline
                  KlausK Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by Klaus
                  #23

                  @jon-nyc yes, I meant those that start with K but tie at any point later on. Also, nothing ends in a tie since the final result is 105:95.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • KlausK Offline
                    KlausK Offline
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by Klaus
                    #24

                    By the way, there's an interesting pattern in the puzzles you post. They seem to be extremely complicated and involve all kinds of advanced maths, but then it turns out there's some kind of trick that only applies in the very specific situation that suddenly makes all the complexity go away and there's a very simple solution. I assume one could also come up with all the formulas to compute the number of distinct successful paths (which would involve Catalan numbers and stuff), divide it by the total number of paths, and, after a lot of algebraic manipulation, end up with the same formula. So the actual puzzle is to find a shortcut to the formula, which, in this case, turns out to be the identification of the path correspondence.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #25

                      Your solution is neat.

                      Another is similar to a cycle lemma proof.

                      Imagine randomly arranging the votes in a circle and trying to decide where to start in order to satisfy the goal of K always being ahead. You can remove any adjacent pairs KH as they will not lead to an increase in H votes. You are left with 10 Ks at the end of this process, corresponding to starting points that would have resulted in K always being ahead.

                      10/200=5%

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        Your solution is neat.

                        Another is similar to a cycle lemma proof.

                        Imagine randomly arranging the votes in a circle and trying to decide where to start in order to satisfy the goal of K always being ahead. You can remove any adjacent pairs KH as they will not lead to an increase in H votes. You are left with 10 Ks at the end of this process, corresponding to starting points that would have resulted in K always being ahead.

                        10/200=5%

                        KlausK Offline
                        KlausK Offline
                        Klaus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #26

                        @jon-nyc said in Puzzle Time - Election Edition:

                        Imagine randomly arranging the votes in a circle and trying to decide where to start in order to satisfy the goal of K always being ahead. You can remove any adjacent pairs KH as they will not lead to an increase in H votes. You are left with 10 Ks at the end of this process, corresponding to starting points that would have resulted in K always being ahead.

                        You lost me at "You are left with 10 Ks...". Can you elaborate?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                          #27

                          You would finish the process and there would be 10 ‘K’ votes remaining. Had you started counting from any of those 10 spots on the circle than you would have always had a positive number because every H vote you came across would have been preceded (not necessarily immediately) by a canceling K vote.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #28

                            Try it with a circle of 10 (6K,4H) and you’ll see what I mean.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #29

                              I want to know if the reason Horace hasn’t chimed in is because he’s indignant at his loss to Klaus.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Loki
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #30

                                Maybe Klaus’s answers weren’t sealed properly and therefore were thrown out.

                                Horace is likely busy setting up his transition team.

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