Discharge tomorrow?
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@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
The good doctor did his residency in Emergency Medicine. He is neither an infectious disease expert or the President's physician.
He's also a CNN "Medical Consultant."
As I've mentioned before talking about some of Fox's "medical consultants," these guys should stick to what they know. The Fox lady is a radiologist. I have no idea how good/bad of a photon watcher she is, but I would take anything she says about treatment of the virus with a grain of salt.
This guy, as Jolly points out, is an ER doc (remember when ER docs were lambasted here for giving their opinions on the virus?). He's probably a good ER doc. Is he aware of decision-making that went into this, what precautions were taken? Probably not.
That said, I think it was a bone-headed and stupid move. Just another unforced error by the Trump White House. It would have been far better, and aroused fewer heads exploding had he finished his course of treatment and be video-ed leaving Marine One on the South Lawn.
An aside, in a photo, POTUS is wearing a black mask. Presumably that's a cloth mask. Why not a N95 mask, which this clearly is not?
Why bother shooting the messenger just to agree with him in the end?
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 11:58 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Why bother shooting the messenger just to agree with him in the end?
Did I agree with him? Perhaps you're referring to my comment about the N95 mask?
I just said it was a stupid move. I didn't clarify that it was about the optics.
I have no knowledge how dangerous it was, and presumably, neither does he, other than hearsay and his experience as an ER doc.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:00 last edited by jon-nyc 10 May 2020, 12:01
So you’re not willing to go out on a limb to say that sharing a special hermetically sealed car interior with a Covid patient is risky? Or are you hanging your hat on the fact that no one can precisely quantify the risk?
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So you’re not willing to go out on a limb to say that sharing a special hermetically sealed car interior with a Covid patient is risky? Or are you hanging your hat on the fact that no one can precisely quantify the risk?
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:12 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Discharge tomorrow?:
So you’re not willing to go out on a limb to say that sharing a special hermetically sealed car interior with a Covid patient is risky? Or are you hanging your hat on the fact that no one can precisely quantify the risk?
Sure, I'll go there. But I'm no expert, and neither is Phillips.
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
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@jon-nyc said in Discharge tomorrow?:
So you’re not willing to go out on a limb to say that sharing a special hermetically sealed car interior with a Covid patient is risky? Or are you hanging your hat on the fact that no one can precisely quantify the risk?
Sure, I'll go there. But I'm no expert, and neither is Phillips.
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:21 last edited by@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
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@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Nah, I think I'll come back to this one...One can be pretty damn moral, yet still accept human death.
Go figure that one out.
I get that. I also get that it's impossible to keep the whole of humanity from being affected by the virus. The thing I posted however relates to a certain contingent of the population who cares more about the life of one person than the life of thousands because their beliefs are feeble. Which is ridiculous.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:22 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Nah, I think I'll come back to this one...One can be pretty damn moral, yet still accept human death.
Go figure that one out.
I get that. I also get that it's impossible to keep the whole of humanity from being affected by the virus. The thing I posted however relates to a certain contingent of the population who cares more about the life of one person than the life of thousands because their beliefs are feeble. Which is ridiculous.
As long as we're doing late night dorm room conversation... What does the Bible say about living in fear? What does it say about prudence?
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@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:25 last edited by@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
And, if a hen and a half, could lay an egg and a half, in a day and a half, how long would it take a grasshopper with one wooden leg, to kick half of the seeds out of a fifty pound black diamond watermelon?
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@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
I would think that the docs attending Trump considered all that. I would trust their opinion more than his. AFAIK, he's never laid eyes on Trump.
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:26 last edited by George K 10 May 2020, 12:27@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
Nope. I'm not sure. It's entirely possible that their thinking was override, but we don't know that. Are you sure?
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
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@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
But are you sure the docs attending Trump thought the car ride was a good idea, or the docs advised against car ride but Trump and/or his political advisors went against the doctors’ advise and did the car ride anyway?
Nope. I'm not sure. It's entirely possible that their thinking was override, but we don't know that. Are you sure?
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:33 last edited by@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
And put a couple of Secret Service agents and a driver out of commission for a couple of weeks, if not into a hospital; it might even kill them.
It’s more than an enforced error, it’s gross negligence and wanton endangerment — all for a photo-op.
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@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
And put a couple of Secret Service agents and a driver out of commission for a couple of weeks, if not into a hospital; it might even kill them.
It’s more than an enforced error, it’s gross negligence and wanton endangerment — all for a photo-op.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:50 last edited by@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
And put a couple of Secret Service agents and a driver out of commission for a couple of weeks, if not into a hospital; it might even kill them.
It’s more than an enforced error, it’s gross negligence and wanton endangerment — all for a photo-op.
You don't know the environment of the vehicle. You don't know how Trump got in the vehicle. You don't know how the agents got in the vehicle. You don't know the proximity or the infection control measures taken by the agents in the hospital. I do know that when Trump goes back to the Whitehouse, it won't be a hospital environment and the agents will still be guarding the President. And I promise those agents will not wear any protective gear which will impede their ability to draw a weapon.
Decisions are mostly about risk and reward. If you have been following the live cam in front of the hispital, you will have noticed a steady stream of Trump supporters carrying Get Well signs and waving American flags. I thought it was kinda neat. The President said he was humbled and very grateful at the outpouring of support.
In the President's mind, a leader should not show weakness. A leader should lead from the front. And Trump mostly gets his optics right, at least for his supporters. So maybe you think he endangered his detail. Maybe. It may be there was less risk than we know about. In any case, Trump felt like this was something he needed to do, so he did it.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 12:52 last edited by Mik 10 May 2020, 12:52
You can see from the picture there is a partition in that car between the driver and the president.
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You can see from the picture there is a partition in that car between the driver and the president.
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@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
As I said, it was a stupid, unforced error that did little other than kill millions of Twitter electrons.
And put a couple of Secret Service agents and a driver out of commission for a couple of weeks, if not into a hospital; it might even kill them.
It’s more than an enforced error, it’s gross negligence and wanton endangerment — all for a photo-op.
You don't know the environment of the vehicle. You don't know how Trump got in the vehicle. You don't know how the agents got in the vehicle. You don't know the proximity or the infection control measures taken by the agents in the hospital. I do know that when Trump goes back to the Whitehouse, it won't be a hospital environment and the agents will still be guarding the President. And I promise those agents will not wear any protective gear which will impede their ability to draw a weapon.
Decisions are mostly about risk and reward. If you have been following the live cam in front of the hispital, you will have noticed a steady stream of Trump supporters carrying Get Well signs and waving American flags. I thought it was kinda neat. The President said he was humbled and very grateful at the outpouring of support.
In the President's mind, a leader should not show weakness. A leader should lead from the front. And Trump mostly gets his optics right, at least for his supporters. So maybe you think he endangered his detail. Maybe. It may be there was less risk than we know about. In any case, Trump felt like this was something he needed to do, so he did it.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 13:10 last edited by@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Decisions are mostly about risk and reward.
Risk = infect a few folks with COVID-19
Reward = photo-op -
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 13:11 last edited by
@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@Mik that's "The Beast," not the SUV in which Trump rode yesterday.
They all look alike to him.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 13:52 last edited by
washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/04/trump-covid-19-discharge/
“My impression is they are telling us everything that is of good news and limiting everything that is not perfect,” said Rochelle Walensky, chief of infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital.
Robert Wachter, chairman of the University of California at San Francisco’s department of medicine, said any patient of his with Trump’s symptoms and treatment who wanted to be discharged from the hospital three days after their admission would need to sign out against doctors’ orders because it would be so ill-advised.
“For someone sick enough to have required remdesivir and dexamethasone, I can’t think of a situation in which a patient would be okay to leave on day three, even with the White House’s medical capacity,” Wachter said.
“Absolutely not,” William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University’s medical school, said of the idea of sending Trump back to the White House on Monday.
“I will bet dollars to doughnuts it’s the president and his political aides who are talking about discharge, not his doctors,” Schaffner added.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:04 last edited by
No hospital I know of, would have admitted a normal person with a 94 sat.
POTUS is different.
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@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Decisions are mostly about risk and reward.
Risk = infect a few folks with COVID-19
Reward = photo-opwrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:07 last edited by@Axtremus said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
Decisions are mostly about risk and reward.
Risk = infect a few folks with COVID-19
Reward = photo-opReward is to offset the stories that Trump was really ill. What happened to that story that Trump might be on death’s door?
I guess that one got abandoned after serious pumping all day Saturday and Sunday.
I think this new one is a dud but got some traction for a few hours.
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No hospital I know of, would have admitted a normal person with a 94 sat.
POTUS is different.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:17 last edited by@Jolly said in Discharge tomorrow?:
No hospital I know of, would have admitted a normal person with a 94 sat.
POTUS is different.
Here's the futility of making decisions on a single number.
I walked to the bathroom, and retrieved our pulse oximeter:
I took eleven deep breaths.
These are cropped screenshots, but here's the metadata for the originals - look at the timestamps.
It's all about the trend, not the number.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:26 last edited by
@George-K said in Discharge tomorrow?:
@Mik that's "The Beast," not the SUV in which Trump rode yesterday.
I would bet it has the partition as well.
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wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:28 last edited by
He may be readmitted next week if this goes south. I suspect he had to be in the clinical setting to receive the treatments he did.
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He may be readmitted next week if this goes south. I suspect he had to be in the clinical setting to receive the treatments he did.
wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 14:30 last edited by@Mik said in Discharge tomorrow?:
He may be readmitted next week if this goes south.
And that would look terrible, and probably hurt the campaign.
If I were advising, I'd stay on the side of caution, being sure that the trend is toward improvement.