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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. SCOTUS blocks Trump tariffs under IEEPA

SCOTUS blocks Trump tariffs under IEEPA

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote last edited by
    #19

    Gorsuch's comment on this (confirmed by Newsweek):

    alt text

    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Online
      HoraceH Online
      Horace
      wrote last edited by
      #20

      No need for journalist confirmation. That was in the written opinion released by SCOTUS.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote last edited by
        #21

        I confirm anything I see on FB before I share it.

        "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

        1 Reply Last reply
        • X Offline
          X Offline
          xenon
          wrote last edited by
          #22

          Trump had another tantrum and upped the 10% to 15%.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Online
            HoraceH Online
            Horace
            wrote last edited by
            #23

            sigh.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote last edited by
              #24

              He loves taxing Americans. Makes Mamdani look like Milton Friedman in comparison.

              The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Online
                HoraceH Online
                Horace
                wrote last edited by
                #25

                From what I understand, there has to be an investigation and written justification (at least) for tariffs under the new sections. Of course the administration will concoct something, but if it's too transparently garbage, it'll be open to court rejection, presumably.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • AxtremusA Offline
                  AxtremusA Offline
                  Axtremus
                  wrote last edited by
                  #26

                  With so many AI chat bots around, surely one can "write" a justification to muddle through the 150 days legal maximum.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote last edited by
                    #27

                    Then he lets them lapse for a day and does another 150 days of 14.9%?

                    The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote last edited by
                      #28

                      https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1b26r3goH7/?mibextid=wwXIfr

                      The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Online
                        HoraceH Online
                        Horace
                        wrote last edited by
                        #29

                        Nobody is happier about the president's alleged ability to circumvent the narrow court ruling and raise tariffs anyway, than his opponents in the midterms.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote last edited by
                          #30

                          Something I read this morning regarding Gorsuch's opinion sums it up nicely. This is not to say there are no problems with the legislative process, but that, to me, is not a reason to hand over powers.

                          "Justice Neil Gorsuch closed today's tariff opinion with a paragraph worth framing. Read it, slowly, if you haven't already.

                          During the Biden administration, the president unveiled a sweeping student loan forgiveness plan. It would cancel up to $10,000 in federal debt for most borrowers earning under $125,000 a year and up to $20,000 for Pell Grant recipients. Across tens of millions of borrowers, the projected price tag reached $430 billion. It was bold. It was popular in certain quarters. And it rested on no clear act of Congress.
                          Biden pointed to an emergency-relief statute. His critics, six Republican-led states among them, argued the law permitted only targeted, modest adjustments for borrowers harmed by specific emergencies. It was never written to rewrite the entire architecture of student loan repayment. The Supreme Court agreed. The president had overreached.

                          Fast forward to today. President Trump, invoking a trade-sanctions statute, claimed sweeping tariff authority: the power to impose whatever duties he chose, against whomever he chose, whenever he chose. The statutory text, his opponents argued, authorized nothing so broad. The Supreme Court agreed again. The president had overreached.

                          The symmetry is striking. In both cases, a president seized on a narrow statute and read into it limitless power. In both cases, the Court drew the line. Congress writes the law. The president executes it. When a president wants authority for something this consequential, he must go to Congress and earn it.

                          That should be the end of the analysis. But it wasn't for everyone.
                          Among the nine justices, only three voted consistently in both cases: Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Barrett. Every other justice, whether styled as liberal or conservative, landed on opposite sides depending on which president held the pen. The so-called principled wings of the Court simply swapped positions.
                          The same is true of the commentators, the activists, and the pundits who flooded social media in both moments. Many who cheered the student loan ruling now rage at today's tariff decision. Many who denounced Biden's overreach now insist Trump's was different — special, necessary, justified by circumstance. It wasn't different. The legal question was identical.

                          If you found yourself on opposite sides of these two cases, that is worth sitting with. I don't write this as an accusation, but as an invitation. Constitutional principles do not change with the occupant of the Oval Office. They are not clothing to be swapped out when a new administration arrives. The separation of powers protects everyone, or it protects no one. A Congress that can be bypassed by a president you love can be bypassed by one you loathe.

                          Gorsuch put it plainly: major decisions affecting the rights and responsibilities of the American people are funneled through the legislative process for a reason. Legislating is hard and slow. The temptation to bypass Congress when something feels urgent is real. But deliberation is the point. Through it, the Nation draws on the wisdom of elected representatives rather than the will of one man. Laws forged through that process tend to endure, giving ordinary people the stable ground they need to plan their lives.

                          That paragraph belongs in every high school civics classroom in America.
                          The constitutional order does not favor Republicans or Democrats. It favors no policy agenda and no election outcome. It simply demands that the people's representatives, not the president acting alone, make the laws under which we live. Three justices held that line in both cases. The rest did not.
                          Ask yourself which kind of justice you want on that Court. Then ask yourself which kind of citizen you intend to be."

                          "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          👍
                          • HoraceH Online
                            HoraceH Online
                            Horace
                            wrote last edited by
                            #31

                            Yeah. None of Trump's indignation centers on a contention that his emergency tariffs are constitutional. He's just upset because he thinks they are a good idea, and therefore the justices should be dependable rubber stampers.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            LuFins DadL MikM 2 Replies Last reply
                            • HoraceH Online
                              HoraceH Online
                              Horace
                              wrote last edited by
                              #32

                              But it should be noted that Kavanaugh is considered more to the center than Gorsuch. The distillation of this down to rubber stamping tribalists, rather than genuine differences of perspective on the constitution, is probably overstated. At least in the case of Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. It's difficult to view Thomas and Alito as anything but a rubber stamper for the right, as it would be difficult to view the three left ladies as anything but rubber stampers for the left. Though if you look, you can still find exceptions to the predictions that those categories would imply.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Horace

                                Yeah. None of Trump's indignation centers on a contention that his emergency tariffs are constitutional. He's just upset because he thinks they are a good idea, and therefore the justices should be dependable rubber stampers.

                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote last edited by
                                #33

                                @Horace said in SCOTUS blocks Trump tariffs under IEEPA:

                                Yeah. None of Trump's indignation centers on a contention that his emergency tariffs are constitutional. He's just upset because he thinks they are a good idea, and therefore the justices should be dependable rubber stampers.

                                And he’s completely fvcked the message up. While I’m not a fan of the tariffs, I was surprised to learn the amount of gaming that happens elsewhere to disadvantage US trade. That message has been lost again.

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Horace

                                  Yeah. None of Trump's indignation centers on a contention that his emergency tariffs are constitutional. He's just upset because he thinks they are a good idea, and therefore the justices should be dependable rubber stampers.

                                  MikM Offline
                                  MikM Offline
                                  Mik
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #34

                                  @Horace said in SCOTUS blocks Trump tariffs under IEEPA:

                                  Yeah. None of Trump's indignation centers on a contention that his emergency tariffs are constitutional. He's just upset because he thinks they are a good idea, and therefore the justices should be dependable rubber stampers.

                                  That is certainly a well-supported conclusion. I think his belligerence is wearing thin, with little attention being paid to it. The EU's reaction was one of "oh, he's acting out again, we'll just have to ride it out until cooler heads prevail". That said, even as a lame duck, he's still quite consequential. I cannot remember a president that took so many issues head on.

                                  "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #35

                                    Given that I support most of his efforts, if not the way they were gone about, it raises an interesting question. Is the US effectively governable under the current restrictions? Can we function with the painfully slow deliberative process in a world that moves ever faster?

                                    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                                    AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #36

                                      https://financialpost.com/news/economy/tariff-turmoil-eu-halt-us-trade-deal

                                      The European Union froze ratification of its U.S. trade deal until President Donald Trump solidifies his upended tariff plans, injecting economic turbulence into an already strained relationship.

                                      EU lawmakers on Monday suspended legislative work on approving the deal. The move came days after the United States Supreme Court struck down Trump’s use of an emergency-powers law to impose his so-called reciprocal tariffs around the world.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Mik

                                        Given that I support most of his efforts, if not the way they were gone about, it raises an interesting question. Is the US effectively governable under the current restrictions? Can we function with the painfully slow deliberative process in a world that moves ever faster?

                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        Axtremus
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #37

                                        @Mik said in SCOTUS blocks Trump tariffs under IEEPA:

                                        Is the US effectively governable under the current restrictions? Can we function with the painfully slow deliberative process in a world that moves ever faster?

                                        Is the world really moving faster, though?
                                        With regards to scientific progress and technological innovations, probably.
                                        With regards to changing geopolitical risks caused by foreign powers, no worse than before.
                                        With regards to international trade? The “moving faster” seems self-inflicted.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #38

                                          https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/judge-orders-government-to-begin-refunding-more-than-130-billion-in-tariffs-fdc1e62c

                                          A federal trade-court judge on Wednesday ordered the Trump administration to start refunding the more than $130 billion it collected in the global tariffs invalidated by the Supreme Court last month.

                                          Following a hearing involving a filtration company’s fight for a refund, Judge Richard Eaton at the Manhattan-based Court of International Trade issued a written order directing the administration to begin the process of refunding importers. He set a hearing for Friday at which he asked for updates.

                                          More than 2,000 lawsuits have been filed by companies—including big names such as Costco Wholesale, FedEx and Pandora Jewelry—seeking to recoup their money.

                                          The judge’s order requires U.S. Customs and Border Protection to issue refunds by recalculating the initial duties importers paid, excluding the tariffs voided by the high court. Eaton also said the court’s chief judge indicated he will be in charge of settling the refund litigation.

                                          1 Reply Last reply

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