Marriage advice
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Ok, nothing that serious. But an honest scenario and question.
Yes I love my wife and she's loyal, trustworthy, great mom to the kids, etc. Currently she's a stay-at-home mom with our two pre-kindergarten kiddos. When we first were dating, she had a clean, almost minimalist apartment.
But over the last few years, she's borderline hoarder. Mostly with mom-related things. For example
- Kids drawers: If it were up to me, each kid would have 5-7 jammies. They have 50 pairs each, and I cannot close the drawers they are packed so tight.
- Shoes: Somehow for a family of 5, we have about 45 pairs of shoes in the entry way.
- Library: She'll take the kids there and check out 60-70 books. Growing up, we'd check out 5.
- Toys: Oh boy, the toys. My dirty little secret is every few weeks I go around and collect cheap, broken, or scattered toys and toss them. I've probably done 20 kitchen trash bags worth over the last 3 years. In my opinion, if a kid has 10 toys they will treasure them that much more than having 500 toys.
- Ornaments: It's taking over a week to hang ornaments on the tree, we have I have no idea... 200-300 ornaments, and clearly can't fit it all.
- Crafts: Our laundry room has a wide counter on the side of it, probably 10x4 feet, and it's completely covered with bags of crafts. Heck one time I went to a large marker holder and emptied it out and instead of having 9 browns and 11 reds, I reduced it to 2 markers per color. And the crayons...why do we have so many crayons.
The best part...if I ever bring even a hint of this being an issue up, it's an immediate insult to her as mom. Yet every week I'll hear "where is this toy" or "where is this library book?" or "where is my hat?"
To wrap it up... when I come home from work, she'll be reading or on her phone, and every counter is filled with clutter and I have to decide if I want to start a fight by even saying anything or not. Almost every time it's not worth the conflict.
This isn't really an insult, but my wife has never been able to have a delicate conversation without somehow it turning into a fight. For example, our DVR was almost full and shows we recorded were at risk for being deleted. This came up one night and I told her I have 11 shows recorded and she has about 130 shows, and if she thought there were any series she wasn't watching anymore.... woah nelly, DEFCON 1.
I had a friend in town this past weekend and he was asking me about some of the clutter and in explaining it to him I realized I simply don't engage her with the topic of reducing clutter, or cleaning up, or even expectations as a stay at home mom. I know she is unable to have any conversation about anything remotely uncomfortable so I just avoid the fight. And yes, I usually just clean things up once a week when folks are gone, it's easier that way.
Any words of wisdom from ya'll?
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Wow, this hits home very closely. My ex-wife also became a hoarder over time, and I also couldn't talk to her about it without it becoming a big fight. It became so difficult to find something in the mess that we sometimes ordered things new from Amazon because that was easier than locating it.
The fact that she's my ex-wife tells you something about how I solved the problem. The issues you describe were not the only but a major contributor to the end of our relationship. They are also a symptom that there's something else that is seriously wrong.
You say this isn't serious. I disagree. This is huge. You either solve it, or your relationship will end. Address it now, before it eats your soul.
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There is no such thing as a dragon. This is a kids book, but it tells you something about what happens if you can't talk about something. The problem becomes bigger and bigger and finally makes your whole life miserable.
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89th, I'm the same as you, tidy with wife who's not bothered.
Any surface becomes covered, our kitchen mostly unusable as it is storage despite her tidying efforts.
But it's mostly limited to 'her' craft room
Which is unusable and becoming back filled
The store/utility rooms rooms
Clothes, books the same, kinda dumped by her, whereas I'll devote some time each day to clearing away.And to a certain extent 'my' garage is filled with stuff because our attic is completely empty. Occasionally I have a clear out, with permission.
You can't throw her stuff out even be it 10 huge cardboard rolls from inside carpet, or the wire from all the old lampshades in the house when we bought it. It could be used for crafts in that craft room🤪 on my parental dining table which you might just see.You can't really change people, certainly not quickly; and upbringing is not a factor in this human nature as there are people in our family who had everything done for them and some are tidy, others not.
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Carve out for yourself a "man cave" where you can be as tidy as you want. Bring your kids to see your man cave every now and then so they see there is another way of living. Leave her be.
Who knows what pregnancies have done to her hormones to push her hoarder's subconscious to the surface? Pregnancies are very big deals that leave long lasting effects on the body and mind. Give it time, maybe lots of time, for the hormonal levels to revert. After the kids grow up to the point where the kids spend more time away from home, she may want to go back to work and that may again change her domestic behaviors and tendencies.
Oh, after you get this off your chest and collected the advice, delete this thread before she sees it. In the old days these would be things you tell a few of your confidants who would exercise discretion rather than posting on the open Internet where it's readily searchable by your wife and her confidants.
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I disagree. Living with the intolerable silently will foster resentment which will inevitably erode your relationship. It is possible that the reason it becomes a big fight is because she knows something is wrong, feels overwhelmed and is scared or unable for whatever reason to confront it. It's your duty as her husband to help her work through this. Just don't expect instant results.
It's often difficult to see a path forward when you are up to your neck in a situation. Some counseling for you on how to start working through this might help. The first place you might go is AI. You need fresh input.
When our daughter was born Janet became a stay at home mom. After a highly successful sales career she found it stifling and was conflicted about that, as if she should not feel that way. Your bride may be feeling some form of that and using the dopamine hit from purchasing wonderful new things to cope, while still feeling unfulfilled. She's spent family money on all these things and would feel guilty discarding them. I know a lot of people who employ retail therapy.
The key words here are gentle and loving. She needs to know her feelings will land in a safe place with you, just as you would do with your kids. I'm a pretty direct person by and large and I found that the way I responded to things did not always make her feel safe. Took me a long time to learn when my natural response to something was not going to be helpful.
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Good feedback everyone, I read each response and appreciate it, and that I'm not going crazy.
@mik you are spot-on, I think. Yes my natural urge is to say something along the lines of "if you weren't on your phone you'd have so much more time to do bare minimum tidying up" (think of moms pre-smartphone.... what distractions were there, soap operas?) so it's hard to learn how to communicate on their level instead of my urge for a more direct summary of the problem.
Before kids? She worked for the Dept of Veterans Affairs helping vets get education or work. She doesn't have a strong desire to go back into the workplace, she says. I think your point is 100% accurate that if I bring it up she knows it's wrong, she's overwhelmed, and for whatever reason is usually in paralysis mode instead of just fixing it. She has hinted before that sometimes she doesn't know where to start (so she just doesn't), whereas I'm more of a rip-the-bandaid, so when I tidy up, I go room by room and it takes me about 2 hours but... just effing do it!
Ok rant over... appreciate the feedback. Maybe I'll get that dragon book, @klaus
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