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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The AI bubble is still ahead of us

The AI bubble is still ahead of us

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  • HoraceH Horace

    @jon-nyc said:

    I’ve read some interesting perspectives on why it isn’t in a bubble, both looking at PE ratios (much lower than in the dot com era) and the fact that the infrastructure companies aren’t building ahead of demand (like Cisco and the telecoms did in the dot com era). No one is laying the equivalent of dark fiber. Every gpu nvidia makes gets lit up right away.

    Gavin Baker’s fund is interesting- he owns all these AI stocks but has a huge short position in QQQ as a hedge.

    Complicated hedging strategies don't make much sense to me. If you want to be both long and short highly correlated equities in order to insure the primary bet, maybe just discard the insurance and invest a reduced amount of capital in the primary bet. But if you want to potentially profit on a massive reverse move, I guess you'd have to do something more complicated.

    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote last edited by jon-nyc
    #18

    @Horace said:

    @jon-nyc said:

    I’ve read some interesting perspectives on why it isn’t in a bubble, both looking at PE ratios (much lower than in the dot com era) and the fact that the infrastructure companies aren’t building ahead of demand (like Cisco and the telecoms did in the dot com era). No one is laying the equivalent of dark fiber. Every gpu nvidia makes gets lit up right away.

    Gavin Baker’s fund is interesting- he owns all these AI stocks but has a huge short position in QQQ as a hedge.

    Complicated hedging strategies don't make much sense to me. If you want to be both long and short highly correlated equities in order to insure the primary bet, maybe just discard the insurance and invest a reduced amount of capital in the primary bet. But if you want to potentially profit on a massive reverse move, I guess you'd have to do something more complicated.

    The short gives you a lot more money to invest. You’re betting that the AI companies will compose a larger and larger percentage of the tech stock universe, which could pay off regardless of what happens to the overall market. It’s actually how hedge funds got their name.

    Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Online
      HoraceH Online
      Horace
      wrote last edited by
      #19

      As good a place as any to put this.

      https://seekingalpha.com/news/4599518-citron-research-founder-andrew-left-found-guilty-of-securities-fraud

      Community notes remains undefeated and all that.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        @Horace said:

        @jon-nyc said:

        I’ve read some interesting perspectives on why it isn’t in a bubble, both looking at PE ratios (much lower than in the dot com era) and the fact that the infrastructure companies aren’t building ahead of demand (like Cisco and the telecoms did in the dot com era). No one is laying the equivalent of dark fiber. Every gpu nvidia makes gets lit up right away.

        Gavin Baker’s fund is interesting- he owns all these AI stocks but has a huge short position in QQQ as a hedge.

        Complicated hedging strategies don't make much sense to me. If you want to be both long and short highly correlated equities in order to insure the primary bet, maybe just discard the insurance and invest a reduced amount of capital in the primary bet. But if you want to potentially profit on a massive reverse move, I guess you'd have to do something more complicated.

        The short gives you a lot more money to invest. You’re betting that the AI companies will compose a larger and larger percentage of the tech stock universe, which could pay off regardless of what happens to the overall market. It’s actually how hedge funds got their name.

        HoraceH Online
        HoraceH Online
        Horace
        wrote last edited by
        #20

        @jon-nyc said:

        @Horace said:

        @jon-nyc said:

        I’ve read some interesting perspectives on why it isn’t in a bubble, both looking at PE ratios (much lower than in the dot com era) and the fact that the infrastructure companies aren’t building ahead of demand (like Cisco and the telecoms did in the dot com era). No one is laying the equivalent of dark fiber. Every gpu nvidia makes gets lit up right away.

        Gavin Baker’s fund is interesting- he owns all these AI stocks but has a huge short position in QQQ as a hedge.

        Complicated hedging strategies don't make much sense to me. If you want to be both long and short highly correlated equities in order to insure the primary bet, maybe just discard the insurance and invest a reduced amount of capital in the primary bet. But if you want to potentially profit on a massive reverse move, I guess you'd have to do something more complicated.

        The short gives you a lot more money to invest. You’re betting that the AI companies will compose a larger and larger percentage of the tech stock universe, which could pay off regardless of what happens to the overall market. It’s actually how hedge funds got their name.

        I had ChatGPT explain it to me. The reason I was confused is that it's not really an insured long on the AI stocks. It's a pairs trade where the investor is betting the AI stocks will outperform the broader QQQ, regardless of the overall direction of either. I guess that's a "hedge" by some other definition than the one I'm familiar with. I know it as a pairs trade, or arbitrage.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Online
          HoraceH Online
          Horace
          wrote last edited by Horace
          #21

          NVidia CEO reminds the world that large portions of the masses are insane:

          https://seekingalpha.com/news/4600296-nvidia-ceo-says-only-some-crazy-person-fails-to-see-roi-from-ai-investments-report

          "Remember last year when we were together, the rhetoric and the narrative around the investment were, 'What's the ROI?'" he added. "Give me one example of some crazy person saying that now. They're going to sound insane."

          This notion that AI has no ROI is still abundant in online stock discussions. Lots of people can't disentangle their hatred of a new technology from a sober assessment of its economic potential.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Online
            HoraceH Online
            Horace
            wrote last edited by
            #22

            There's also abundant breath-holding from people in computer game discussions about how they'll never purchase a game that used AI in its development. It's interesting watching a social movement that is so obviously a flash in the pan, participated in by people who are only telling on themselves that they're afraid of change, and prefer to scream at the clouds rather than accept it.

            Education is extremely important.

            Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Horace

              There's also abundant breath-holding from people in computer game discussions about how they'll never purchase a game that used AI in its development. It's interesting watching a social movement that is so obviously a flash in the pan, participated in by people who are only telling on themselves that they're afraid of change, and prefer to scream at the clouds rather than accept it.

              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote last edited by Doctor Phibes
              #23

              @Horace said:

              There's also abundant breath-holding from people in computer game discussions about how they'll never purchase a game that used AI in its development.

              If the cost of video cards and memory continue to rise, they may not be able to afford to play it.

              I was only joking

              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Away
                AxtremusA Away
                Axtremus
                wrote last edited by
                #24

                Is necessary to have high resolution video playing at a high frame rate to enjoy computer games?

                Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                Doctor PhibesD HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
                • AxtremusA Axtremus

                  Is necessary to have high resolution video playing at a high frame rate to enjoy computer games?

                  Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote last edited by
                  #25

                  @Axtremus said:

                  Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                  When did you last play a computer game, 1998?

                  I was only joking

                  jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                    @Horace said:

                    There's also abundant breath-holding from people in computer game discussions about how they'll never purchase a game that used AI in its development.

                    If the cost of video cards and memory continue to rise, they may not be able to afford to play it.

                    HoraceH Online
                    HoraceH Online
                    Horace
                    wrote last edited by
                    #26

                    @Doctor-Phibes said:

                    @Horace said:

                    There's also abundant breath-holding from people in computer game discussions about how they'll never purchase a game that used AI in its development.

                    If the cost of video cards and memory continue to rise, they may not be able to afford to play it.

                    They need to invest in chip stocks.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                      Is necessary to have high resolution video playing at a high frame rate to enjoy computer games?

                      Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                      HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote last edited by
                      #27

                      @Axtremus said:

                      Is necessary to have high resolution video playing at a high frame rate to enjoy computer games?

                      Most of the games I play have intentionally retro graphics, ostensibly for aesthetic reasons, but really because the small indie creators can't draw and can't afford artwork. AI will be a positive difference there IMO.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                        @Axtremus said:

                        Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                        When did you last play a computer game, 1998?

                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote last edited by
                        #28

                        @Doctor-Phibes said:

                        @Axtremus said:

                        Beyond 30 frames per second, is there a practical difference other than bragging rights?

                        When did you last play a computer game, 1998?

                        When did Ms PacMan come out?

                        Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

                        1 Reply Last reply

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