Trump’s indoor rally
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@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@Rainman lol.
It just frustrates me when there is something simple that can be done, and realistically is not that big of a thing to follow, and people start saying “ It’s against my rights“
As John Doh said, part of living in a society is following rules. I may not like or agree with everyone of the rules, but as part of society I need to follow them.
The same people who are complaining about wearing a mask Are usually the same ones that complain about when someone doesn’t follow the rules (kneeling for National song for example).
Let me help you understand Americans.
We don't like being ordered around, told what to do. This is a difficult thing to understand if one comes from a country where you were taught from an early age that your individual rights are not as important as society at large... where you are told what to do and when to do it and conditioned to just accept it.
Most Americans don't object to being asked to wear a mask. What they don't like is being ordered to wear a mask, threatened with retribution if they don't comply. It's all in how you approach it. Many who vehemenently object to being ordered to wear a mask will still wear one, because their own common sense tells them they should wear it. But they will make it clear it is THEIR choice to wear it, not because government forced them to wear it.
This is a GOOD thing. Yes, there will be some knobheads who don't give a rat's ass about other people and will not wear a mask no matter what - but what is an important distinction here is that in America we have a right to make that decision. It might seem silly regarding masks, but that attitude will come in quite handy when government says they want our guns, they are closing our churches, etc.
ALL governments will gradually become more burdensome to the citizenry over time, grab more and more control. But it's a lot harder to do when the citizens are able to challenge that growth of control incrementally. There is nothing in our Constitution that allows our government to force us to wear masks. So we can either sit back and allow our government to illegally take another tiny piece of control, erode our freedom by another little smidgen, or we can raise a stink and force government to stay in their lane.
The problem here isn't that compliance is good, individualism bad. The problem is how Americans were approached. No one asked people to wear masks. State and local governments ORDERED people to wear masks. Not only is that overstepping their authority, it triggers the very attitude by many citizens that made America what it is today.
So if you want Americans to do something, show them why it's a good idea and then ASK them. Don't walk out in the middle of some experts saying masks are useless, some saying the help, and others saying masks will eliminate the virus altogether, and then tell us we WILL wear a mask or we will be prosecuted or some such. Because a whole lot of us will turn around and tell you to go fuck yourself.
Good post, but to me, it doesn't make sense in regards to masks.
There are local rules all over. Some are specific for a certain city, some for the whole state
for example
must wear long pants in restaurant x
must wear pants/shoes/shirts to enter
for golf course, must wear a collar shirt
no parking on this side of the street
no smoking in indoor public place
no picking food off of someones plate at another table at a restaurant (okay, okay, this is not an ordinance, but common curtesy. LOL Still, nobody does it)We all have to follow rules that we may not like. That is part of being a civilized person. As I say before, sometimes the common good of society is more important than that of one individual.
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@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
for example
must wear long pants in restaurant x
must wear pants/shoes/shirts to enter
for golf course, must wear a collar shirt
no parking on this side of the street
no smoking in indoor public place
no picking food off of someones plate at another table at a restaurantPrivate institutions, and they can establish whatever rules they wish, as long as they're not discriminatory against any group (Jews, Asians, Blacks).
Government mandating something is totally different. The parking and smoking bans are a matter of laws. AFAIK, no legislation mandating masks has been enacted. I'm not saying that it's wrong, or a bad suggestion, but it's not law. It's an ill-defined gubernatorial "mandate."
Again, I don't think it's wrong, but I question its legality.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
for example
must wear long pants in restaurant x
must wear pants/shoes/shirts to enter
for golf course, must wear a collar shirt
no parking on this side of the street
no smoking in indoor public place
no picking food off of someones plate at another table at a restaurantPrivate institutions, and they can establish whatever rules they wish, as long as they're not discriminatory against any group (Jews, Asians, Blacks).
Government mandating something is totally different. The parking and smoking bans are a matter of laws. AFAIK, no legislation mandating masks has been enacted. I'm not saying that it's wrong, or a bad suggestion, but it's not law. It's an ill-defined gubernatorial "mandate."
Again, I don't think it's wrong, but I question its legality.
I thought that most of those that were issued by governor were similar to the executive order that is issued by the President. I think (but really dont know LOL) that something that is written that gives authority for a governor to make an order like that?
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@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
I thought that most of those that were issued by governor were similar to the executive order that is issued by the President. I think (but really dont know LOL
Good point.
Does the governor of a state have the authority to issue such mandates? I'd guess it's in each state's constitution.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@Rainman lol.
It just frustrates me when there is something simple that can be done, and realistically is not that big of a thing to follow, and people start saying “ It’s against my rights“
As John Doh said, part of living in a society is following rules. I may not like or agree with everyone of the rules, but as part of society I need to follow them.
The same people who are complaining about wearing a mask Are usually the same ones that complain about when someone doesn’t follow the rules (kneeling for National song for example).
Let me help you understand Americans.
We don't like being ordered around, told what to do. This is a difficult thing to understand if one comes from a country where you were taught from an early age that your individual rights are not as important as society at large... where you are told what to do and when to do it and conditioned to just accept it.
Most Americans don't object to being asked to wear a mask. What they don't like is being ordered to wear a mask, threatened with retribution if they don't comply. It's all in how you approach it. Many who vehemenently object to being ordered to wear a mask will still wear one, because their own common sense tells them they should wear it. But they will make it clear it is THEIR choice to wear it, not because government forced them to wear it.
This is a GOOD thing. Yes, there will be some knobheads who don't give a rat's ass about other people and will not wear a mask no matter what - but what is an important distinction here is that in America we have a right to make that decision. It might seem silly regarding masks, but that attitude will come in quite handy when government says they want our guns, they are closing our churches, etc.
ALL governments will gradually become more burdensome to the citizenry over time, grab more and more control. But it's a lot harder to do when the citizens are able to challenge that growth of control incrementally. There is nothing in our Constitution that allows our government to force us to wear masks. So we can either sit back and allow our government to illegally take another tiny piece of control, erode our freedom by another little smidgen, or we can raise a stink and force government to stay in their lane.
The problem here isn't that compliance is good, individualism bad. The problem is how Americans were approached. No one asked people to wear masks. State and local governments ORDERED people to wear masks. Not only is that overstepping their authority, it triggers the very attitude by many citizens that made America what it is today.
So if you want Americans to do something, show them why it's a good idea and then ASK them. Don't walk out in the middle of some experts saying masks are useless, some saying the help, and others saying masks will eliminate the virus altogether, and then tell us we WILL wear a mask or we will be prosecuted or some such. Because a whole lot of us will turn around and tell you to go fuck yourself.
Good post, but to me, it doesn't make sense in regards to masks.
There are local rules all over. Some are specific for a certain city, some for the whole state
for example
must wear long pants in restaurant x
must wear pants/shoes/shirts to enter
for golf course, must wear a collar shirt
no parking on this side of the street
no smoking in indoor public place
no picking food off of someones plate at another table at a restaurant (okay, okay, this is not an ordinance, but common curtesy. LOL Still, nobody does it)We all have to follow rules that we may not like. That is part of being a civilized person. As I say before, sometimes the common good of society is more important than that of one individual.
You didn't understand a damned thing I said.
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TG, Yes. The governor of a State has emergency powers or authority, granted via the state's constitution and via legislation. Stating the obvious, but my point is there is a formality in process and adherence to established protocols. There is also a right to be authoritative if something happens which is not otherwise based upon existing law, and a decision needs to be made immediately. Martians land in Oregon, for example (although I guarantee they'd fit in and no one would notice anyway).
The legislature (known as do-nothings) creates a law or regulation/statute, and in Oregon upon passage the law is "declared an emergency." That does not mean there is an emergency, it simply means the law becomes effective as soon as the governor signs it.Where I would push back on Larry's point, is that there seem to be a lot of people (democrats, and too many republicans) that not only don't mind government telling them what to do, they would prefer the entire system was geared to tell the people what they can and cannot do. Much easier as self-guidance and decision making is left to someone else. Hence the distinction or generality that the democrats support big government, republicans want small government, libertarians want next to no government. And another hence: democrats deal in group identity as more significant than republicans, who believe in the sovereign individual.
I remember walking out of the capital with the Speaker of the House (D) who boasted, "we passed over 700 laws this term!" I looked at him and said, "and you're really proud of that?" D's can pause on something like that, food for thought (or wondering if being insulted).
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@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
You didn't understand a damned thing I said.
Yes @taiwan_girl did understand, and she made good points. You just don't like her view.
You'll defend Trump to the death even if it makes no sense. You said the governor refused to approve outdoor venues, even though the governor was not involved at all, and the venues were following the "max crowd size" rules, which is ironic since they are similar to the rules Trump has also supported, before he didn't support it, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet? Trump also supports temporarily shutting things down, before he didn't, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet?
Your comment of "So if you want Americans to do something, show them why it's a good idea and then ASK them." is laughable. Do you know how many in that trump rally still think COVID is a hoax? How many think a mask does nothing? How clear do the facts need to be before we stop "showing and asking" and start" mandating?
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No, what Larry said was pretty generic in scope - there are differences in state constitutions - and was essentially correct.
And if you don't think the Dem governor of Nevada didn't give the Trump campaign trouble, there ain't a cow in Texas.
The Dems right now, will say anything and do anything to try to steal this election. Witness the absolute unconstitutional idiocy emanating from Pennsylvania's court yesterday. Use this as your lens to view how things happen in this presidential campaign and you may not be standing in the Truth, but you can see it from where you are.
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Both sides will do whatever they can to try and win this election. It's only stealing when the other guy wins.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@George-K said in Trump’s indoor rally:
Does the governor of a state have the authority to issue such mandates? I'd guess it's in each state's constitution.
Issuing the mandates is one thing.
Enforcing them is another.
It's like giving guns to police and telling them not to shoot anyone.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump’s indoor rally:
Both sides will do whatever they can to try and win this election. It's only stealing when the other guy wins.
I bet to differ. Many more lawyers are Democrats. When you have those guys manipulating things, who needs Satan?
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@89th said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
You didn't understand a damned thing I said.
Yes @taiwan_girl did understand, and she made good points. You just don't like her view.
You'll defend Trump to the death even if it makes no sense. You said the governor refused to approve outdoor venues, even though the governor was not involved at all, and the venues were following the "max crowd size" rules, which is ironic since they are similar to the rules Trump has also supported, before he didn't support it, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet? Trump also supports temporarily shutting things down, before he didn't, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet?
Your comment of "So if you want Americans to do something, show them why it's a good idea and then ASK them." is laughable. Do you know how many in that trump rally still think COVID is a hoax? How many think a mask does nothing? How clear do the facts need to be before we stop "showing and asking" and start" mandating?
No, she didn't understand. Neither do you. That's sad, because she has an excuse for not understanding and you don't. You share her tendency to arrive at a conclusion based on what you want that conclusion to be, and then defend your conclusion even when the facts prove you wrong. An example of that is your refusal to give up on your ridiculous and incorrect claim that the governor didn't block access to outdoor venues.
No, I don't know how many of them believe covid is a hoax. Neither do you. There's nothing to support your accusation that ANY of them believe it's a hoax. You make shit up in your mind and then you believe your own nonsense.
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@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@89th said in Trump’s indoor rally:
@Larry said in Trump’s indoor rally:
You didn't understand a damned thing I said.
Yes @taiwan_girl did understand, and she made good points. You just don't like her view.
You'll defend Trump to the death even if it makes no sense. You said the governor refused to approve outdoor venues, even though the governor was not involved at all, and the venues were following the "max crowd size" rules, which is ironic since they are similar to the rules Trump has also supported, before he didn't support it, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet? Trump also supports temporarily shutting things down, before he didn't, before he did, before he didn't. Confused yet?
Your comment of "So if you want Americans to do something, show them why it's a good idea and then ASK them." is laughable. Do you know how many in that trump rally still think COVID is a hoax? How many think a mask does nothing? How clear do the facts need to be before we stop "showing and asking" and start" mandating?
No, she didn't understand. Neither do you. That's sad, because she has an excuse for not understanding and you don't. You share her tendency to arrive at a conclusion based on what you want that conclusion to be, and then defend your conclusion even when the facts prove you wrong. An example of that is your refusal to give up on your ridiculous and incorrect claim that the governor didn't block access to outdoor venues.
No, I don't know how many of them believe covid is a hoax. Neither do you. There's nothing to support your accusation that ANY of them believe it's a hoax. You make shit up in your mind and then you believe your own nonsense.
Yeah, 89, you need to be data-driven like all true conservatives! Those people absolutely never pull stuff out of their ass and quote it as though it's true. I'd suggest watching some Kellyanne Conway videos if you want some tips on keeping it real.
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Where's the fun in that?
There'll be plenty of time to be a miserable old bastard when I'm dead.
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Mr. Trump will be in town tonight for another sold-out rally.
My daughter came over for dinner tonight. Her husband had to work - he is a fire fighter.
He just texted a picture of himself standing with the Beast - the president's limo. He has had presidential duty before.
The hospital where my daughter works had to scramble to reserve more rooms because they got the word that Mr. Pence will be here too. The hospital has to put some rooms aside whenever either is in town. Hospitals generally don't like presidential visits.
This isn't special for Mr. Trump, all presidents cause this disruption.
