DOJ friend resigns
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Bondi was sworn in on February 5th. Patel and Bongino came well after. So 1 day with Bondi was enough to push him over the edge?
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
Bondi was sworn in on February 5th. Patel and Bongino came well after. So 1 day with Bondi was enough to push him over the edge?
I’m not saying it was Bondi. But they’re all singing the Trump song, maybe he didn’t want to be in the chorus any more. Trump 47 is very different than Trump 45.
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@89th People tell themselves stories just like they tell other people stories. I believe that people believe they are 'serving their country' by working for the government. I don't take that seriously, and I never have. If you have a private sector job and pay your taxes and contribute to the economy, you are serving your society too. But we don't have a narrative about private sector employees serving any greater cause, so we don't think in those terms. We may even disrespect it as serving the profit motive, or big corporations. I know we'll disagree on this, but like I said, I get that people believe the stories they tell themselves, and about themselves, and the stories others tell about them. But some narratives are flimsier than others, and government workers being self-sacrificial is a very flimsy story, considering the actual benefits they receive, from pensions to job security.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th People tell themselves stories just like they tell other people stories. I believe that people believe they are 'serving their country' by working for the government. I don't take that seriously, and I never have. If you have a private sector job and pay your taxes and contribute to the economy, you are serving your society too. But we don't have a narrative about private sector employees serving any greater cause, so we don't think in those terms. We may even disrespect it as serving the profit motive, or big corporations. I know we'll disagree on this, but like I said, I get that people believe the stories they tell themselves, and about themselves, and the stories others tell about them. But some narratives are flimsier than others, and government workers being self-sacrificial is a very flimsy story, considering the actual benefits they receive, from pensions to job security.
I’m already regretting sharing that tweet. If you can trust me, and as I know him, it’s very substantial (and surprising) for him to make this decision to quit the civil service. I think it speaks volumes of how negatively federal employees are being treated but whatever.
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I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
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It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Education is extremely important.
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@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Not sure, never asked. Although I'm curious, to be honest. He doesn't talk about the war stories, although one night we were at a Japanese Hibachi restaurant and there was a very large "flame out" the chef did on the grill and Josh had to leave the room for a bit. His girlfriend (now wife) said he was having a PTSD flashback.
After his service, he adopted a young daughter, and volunteered time at the NIH traumatic brain injury institute for a while helping veterans know what their medical options were if they had a TBI and/or PTSD that deserved treatment. He also coordinates charity events for the Wounded Warrior project.
Fun fact, you know how during NFL drafts there is a segment where they bring out veterans on stage? I found out later that was his doing... he just contacted the USO one day (I think back in 2008...) and asked how to get 10 veterans tickets to the draft, and it resulted in a recurring segment each year where veterans are brought onto stage to announce the next player. I think this is him (yellow circle).
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It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
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@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Didn’t know his age until @89th posted it, but you can take VERA at 50 with 20 years service (including military). You can also get early retirement with 25 years total service even under 50. A good friend took VERA from WH Comms in 2017. He was 47 at the time. Had another friend take VERA at 52. Both took lucrative jobs after…
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It actually plays well to 89ths friend that he left 2 years before he may have been eligible.
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@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
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@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
And at higher rates of pay and better benefits than equivalent private sector jobs.
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Imagine taking the principle seriously, and believing that the IRS is populated by people with higher than average motivation to help their fellow man. I think the IRS is populated by people with accounting degrees, who wanted a stable job.
Education is extremely important.
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@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Didn’t know his age until @89th posted it, but you can take VERA at 50 with 20 years service (including military). You can also get early retirement with 25 years total service even under 50. A good friend took VERA from WH Comms in 2017. He was 47 at the time. Had another friend take VERA at 52. Both took lucrative jobs after…
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Didn’t know his age until @89th posted it, but you can take VERA at 50 with 20 years service (including military). You can also get early retirement with 25 years total service even under 50. A good friend took VERA from WH Comms in 2017. He was 47 at the time. Had another friend take VERA at 52. Both took lucrative jobs after…
When VERA is available. Not always the case.
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Imagine taking the principle seriously, and believing that the IRS is populated by people with higher than average motivation to help their fellow man. I think the IRS is populated by people with accounting degrees, who wanted a stable job.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
Imagine taking the principle seriously, and believing that the IRS is populated by people with higher than average motivation to help their fellow man. I think the IRS is populated by people with accounting degrees, who wanted a stable job.
Someone needs to take your extrapolation gun away.
I’m talking about my friend who served his country in the military and wanted to continue serving (volunteering at NIH for veterans with PTSD and at the Dept of Justice). For him to retire is substantial, knowing him. That’s all.
The IRS accountant is not the same as the veterans working at the VA is not the same as the National Parks person protecting an endangered species of mushroom.
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Not sure why he’d want to resign anyway. Look at these fun times!
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@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
Imagine taking the principle seriously, and believing that the IRS is populated by people with higher than average motivation to help their fellow man. I think the IRS is populated by people with accounting degrees, who wanted a stable job.
Someone needs to take your extrapolation gun away.
I’m talking about my friend who served his country in the military and wanted to continue serving (volunteering at NIH for veterans with PTSD and at the Dept of Justice). For him to retire is substantial, knowing him. That’s all.
The IRS accountant is not the same as the veterans working at the VA is not the same as the National Parks person protecting an endangered species of mushroom.
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
Imagine taking the principle seriously, and believing that the IRS is populated by people with higher than average motivation to help their fellow man. I think the IRS is populated by people with accounting degrees, who wanted a stable job.
Someone needs to take your extrapolation gun away.
I’m talking about my friend who served his country in the military and wanted to continue serving (volunteering at NIH for veterans with PTSD and at the Dept of Justice). For him to retire is substantial, knowing him. That’s all.
The IRS accountant is not the same as the veterans working at the VA is not the same as the National Parks person protecting an endangered species of mushroom.
Please let me stipulate that your friend is exactly as awesome as you say he is. I am sure there are plenty of awesome people who work in the government. I don't think you'd find a statistical correlation between "awesome" and "government workers", as you consistently imply.
As for your friend's anecdote and your contention that it proves how terrible things are for your average government worker, no. I think there are specifics about your friend's situation that muddy those waters substantially. Not least his personal feelings for Trump, and his job duties that required him to give voice to things he felt violated his principles or beliefs. That is what I've inferred from what we've learned in this thread, and it is not how he framed his reasons in his resignation letter. I don't actually believe that the atmosphere in general in those government buildings is suffocatingly oppressive to the extent people are fleeing from jobs they otherwise love. He did not love his job of speaking for this administration, obviously. That's just a disingenuous framing.
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It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
it's also a little insulting.
Is it more or less insulting than Canadians not wanting to become American citizens?
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@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/breaking-donald-trump-named-epstein-34766895
ZOMG! Trump flew in the plane twice! With his wife and 7 month old daughter with him! What a sicko! I mean, taking his wife and daughter along on those evil trips?! Debauchery!
