Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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wrote on 19 Feb 2025, 19:04 last edited by
I presume Zelensky has been told that members of NATO sign up to a rather wishy washy Article 5 which allows for individual members to decide their own response to any invasion.
Anything from nothing to nukes I guess. -
wrote on 19 Feb 2025, 19:22 last edited by Renauda
I am sure Zelenskyi is fully aware of the voluntary nature of Art. 5
Regardless it is a better guarantee for Ukrainian security than the either this rejected US proposal or the Budapest Memorandum
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 15:47 last edited by
Someone asked the question, had the Kremlin been in charge of US Foreign Policy statements for the last two weeks, how different would they have been?
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 15:48 last edited by Renauda
WASHINGTON, Feb 20 (Reuters) - The White House continued to press Kyiv on Thursday with its efforts to bring an end to the Russia-Ukraine conflict, urging it to rein in criticism and quickly sign a minerals deal pushed by U.S. President Donald Trump.
https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-adviser-urges-ukraine-tone-down-criticism-2025-02-20/
The Ukrainian position is clear, they want specific security guarantees against future Russian aggression written into the deal before they will sign. Waltz knows this as well.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 17:25 last edited by
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:02 last edited by
It seems Trumpigula is becoming madder by the hour.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:13 last edited by
I honestly never thought I'd see the day when a US President, and least of all a Republican, would behave like this.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:16 last edited by
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:25 last edited by
Do you have such hope?
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 18:31 last edited by
Did you mean to say “not necessarily”?
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I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 20:00 last edited by@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
If he can manage it without selling Ukraine down the river, it will be wonderful, however I honestly cannot see how his current behaviour can lead to such an outcome unless he makes a U-turn.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.
If he can manage it without selling Ukraine down the river, it will be wonderful, however I honestly cannot see how his current behaviour can lead to such an outcome unless he makes a U-turn.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 20:26 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
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@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 22:52 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
I wasn't expecting it to lead to anything, however it seems to me that one person is responsible for this war. Not Biden, not Zelenski, not Harris.
Maybe he's the one who should be held accountable rather than attempting to shift blame like this, and certainly not by appeasement of actual dictators.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:02 last edited by Doctor Phibes
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
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And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:12 last edited bySome people, at least one or two in this forum in fact, cannot conceive that the axiom “it takes two to start a fight” does not always apply or ring true. This war is one such time.
Putin started this war entirely on his own. It was solely born of his own paranoia and imperial ambitions. He will not stop until those are satisfied or he is in his grave. The Russians have a saying “the hunchback is only cured by the grave”. That applies to Putin.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
I wasn't expecting it to lead to anything, however it seems to me that one person is responsible for this war. Not Biden, not Zelenski, not Harris.
Maybe he's the one who should be held accountable rather than attempting to shift blame like this, and certainly not by appeasement of actual dictators.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:17 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
Since you don't actually have any reasonable hope for any specific conclusion, you're talking about nothing other than your feels about the rhetoric being employed by the players. Meanwhile, there's a forever war going, at least until an inevitable Russian victory. I hear nobody engaging with that point, not even the illustrious Bolton, who admitted the Russians are the inevitable victor in a war of attrition, while also sneering at Trump for potentially "surrendering".
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And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:24 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:42 last edited by
And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
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And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:47 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
