Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

[jon-nyc]

MRGA.

[Renauda]

"Ukraine cannot possibly meet his $500bn demand in any meaningful timeframe, leaving aside the larger matter of whether it is honourable to treat a victim nation in this fashion after it has held the battle line for the liberal democracies at enormous sacrifice for three years. Who really has a debt to whom, may one ask?"

As one pundit put it a few days ago:

“Ukraine is getting its legs broken in the alley behind the restaurant - and Trump’s demanding that they hand over their wallet while it’s happening”.

[taiwan_girl]

Aye Yai Yai!

[jon-nyc]

[Renauda]

KYIV, Feb 19 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Wednesday rejected U.S. demands for $500 billion in mineral wealth from Ukraine to repay Washington for wartime aid, saying the United States had supplied nowhere near that sum so far and offered no specific security guarantees in the agreement….

Zelenskiy has said the proposed deal did not contain the security provisions Ukraine desperately needs to protect it from Russian aggression. He said the draft deal proposed the U.S. taking ownership of 50% of Ukraine's critical minerals….

”I was told: only 50 (percent). I said: OK, "I defend Ukraine, I can't sell our country. I said OK, give us some sort of positive. You write some sort of guarantees, and we will write a memorandum... some sort of percentages," he said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-us-minerals-deal-says-i-cant-sell-ukraine-2025-02-19/

[Horace]

I guess Zelensky thinks it's in his interest to publicize every step of these negotiations. Maybe he's right.

[Renauda]

@Horace

Just as does Trump and Putin, except that those two cynically make shit up as they go along.

[AndyD]

I presume Zelensky has been told that members of NATO sign up to a rather wishy washy Article 5 which allows for individual members to decide their own response to any invasion.
Anything from nothing to nukes I guess.

[Renauda]

I am sure Zelenskyi is fully aware of the voluntary nature of Art. 5

Regardless it is a better guarantee for Ukrainian security than the either this rejected US proposal or the Budapest Memorandum

[jon-nyc]

Someone asked the question, had the Kremlin been in charge of US Foreign Policy statements for the last two weeks, how different would they have been?

[Renauda]

WASHINGTON, Feb 20 (Reuters) - The White House continued to press Kyiv on Thursday with its efforts to bring an end to the Russia-Ukraine conflict, urging it to rein in criticism and quickly sign a minerals deal pushed by U.S. President Donald Trump.

https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-adviser-urges-ukraine-tone-down-criticism-2025-02-20/

The Ukrainian position is clear, they want specific security guarantees against future Russian aggression written into the deal before they will sign. Waltz knows this as well.

[jon-nyc]

[Renauda]

It seems Trumpigula is becoming madder by the hour.

[Doctor Phibes]

I honestly never thought I'd see the day when a US President, and least of all a Republican, would behave like this.

[Horace]

I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.

[jon-nyc]

Do you have such hope?

[Horace]

@jon-nyc Sure.

[jon-nyc]

Did you mean to say “not necessarily”?

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

I can't even sniff a vague scent of hope that maybe Trump will end this war, necessarily on terms that Ukraine agrees to. Nor a recognition that if Harris had been elected, we'd still be on forever war rails, just like it was under Biden.

If he can manage it without selling Ukraine down the river, it will be wonderful, however I honestly cannot see how his current behaviour can lead to such an outcome unless he makes a U-turn.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?