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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Pardon reform proposal

Pardon reform proposal

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  • G George K
    23 Jan 2025, 13:51

    @89th said in Pardon reform proposal:

    I'm not terribly sure why the Executive Branch has the power to pardon when it should be separate from the equally powerful Judicial Branch.

    There are some interesting discussions going on regarding the Trump J6 pardons. A couple of judges are refusing to dismiss cases with prejudice, meaning, charges could be brought again.

    J Offline
    J Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 14:04 last edited by
    #6

    @George-K said in Pardon reform proposal:

    @89th said in Pardon reform proposal:

    I'm not terribly sure why the Executive Branch has the power to pardon when it should be separate from the equally powerful Judicial Branch.

    There are some interesting discussions going on regarding the Trump J6 pardons. A couple of judges are refusing to dismiss cases with prejudice, meaning, charges could be brought again.

    They can also piss up a rope. As it stands now, Biden pardon or Trump pardon, c'est fini.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    G 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2025, 14:22
    • J Jolly
      23 Jan 2025, 14:04

      @George-K said in Pardon reform proposal:

      @89th said in Pardon reform proposal:

      I'm not terribly sure why the Executive Branch has the power to pardon when it should be separate from the equally powerful Judicial Branch.

      There are some interesting discussions going on regarding the Trump J6 pardons. A couple of judges are refusing to dismiss cases with prejudice, meaning, charges could be brought again.

      They can also piss up a rope. As it stands now, Biden pardon or Trump pardon, c'est fini.

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      George K
      wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 14:22 last edited by
      #7

      @Jolly said in Pardon reform proposal:

      Biden pardon or Trump pardon, c'est fini.

      Well, that was sort of the point of my post. If the charges are dismissed without prejudice, as this one judge wants to do, they can have another bite at the apple - according to her.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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        Copper
        wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:00 last edited by
        #8

        I like the president to have the power to pardon.

        It may have been abused by both Biden and Trump.

        I still like the president to have the power.

        There are times when an individual can do the right thing when the bureaucracy can't.

        8 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2025, 16:49
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          taiwan_girl
          wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:14 last edited by
          #9

          I think it should be removed completely.

          There seem to be more abuses than positives.

          G 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2025, 15:23
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            Copper
            wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:21 last edited by
            #10

            Mr. Nixon's pardon spared the country years of pain.

            That pain would have outweighed any conviction.

            T 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2025, 15:23
            • C Copper
              23 Jan 2025, 15:21

              Mr. Nixon's pardon spared the country years of pain.

              That pain would have outweighed any conviction.

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              taiwan_girl
              wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:23 last edited by
              #11

              @Copper said in Pardon reform proposal:

              Mr. Nixon's pardon spared the country years of pain.

              That pain would have outweighed any conviction.

              That is a good point. Not quite sure how to reduce the power to also stop the abuse. I dont think that having Senate approval would work. Everything is too partisan right now in the US.

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              • T taiwan_girl
                23 Jan 2025, 15:14

                I think it should be removed completely.

                There seem to be more abuses than positives.

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                G Offline
                George K
                wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:23 last edited by
                #12

                @taiwan_girl said in Pardon reform proposal:

                I think it should be removed completely.

                There seem to be more abuses than positives.

                100,000 draft dodgers would disagree.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:28 last edited by Mik
                  #13

                  I could see limiting it to nonviolent offences and also offenses for which there has been a conviction or possibly a current indictment. This blanket pardon for whatever you may or may not have done does not sit well with me.

                  In the case of Nixon an impeachment and indictment were forthcoming and for very specific acts. I think the blanket term is misused there.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:33 last edited by
                    #14

                    The problem is that there's no real accountability. How about changing the law so that the President can pardon who he likes, but he gets punched in the face (or if that's too violent for you snowflake types, a public wedgie) for each one that goes through?

                    I was only joking

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • K Offline
                      K Offline
                      kluurs
                      wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:46 last edited by
                      #15

                      With a little time, I'm sure our group here at TNCR could come up with a satisfactory and reasonable solution. As for getting a constitutional amendment passed, I think we should do more than one - i.e. add the repeal of birthright citizenship. If there's anything else we need to do, toss it into the hopper.

                      C 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2025, 15:54
                      • K kluurs
                        23 Jan 2025, 15:46

                        With a little time, I'm sure our group here at TNCR could come up with a satisfactory and reasonable solution. As for getting a constitutional amendment passed, I think we should do more than one - i.e. add the repeal of birthright citizenship. If there's anything else we need to do, toss it into the hopper.

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                        Copper
                        wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 15:54 last edited by Copper
                        #16

                        @kluurs said in Pardon reform proposal:

                        TNCR could come up with a satisfactory and reasonable solution.

                        Get rid of all prisons

                        Have roving bands of vigilantes to keep the peace

                        The tncr way

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                        • 8 89th
                          23 Jan 2025, 13:46

                          Well if you change the date to a week before, then that'll be when it happens... it just shifts when the President does it. I could see saying you can't do any after Election Day, but that gets into murky waters.

                          I'm sure I could Google the answer, but I'm not terribly sure why the Executive Branch has the power to pardon when it should be separate from the equally powerful Judicial Branch.

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                          L Offline
                          LuFins Dad
                          wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 16:38 last edited by
                          #17

                          @89th said in Pardon reform proposal:

                          Well if you change the date to a week before, then that'll be when it happens... it just shifts when the President does it. I could see saying you can't do any after Election Day, but that gets into murky waters.

                          Because on Election Day, it’s too late, there are few if any repercussions to the President/Candidate and Party. There’s effectively no difference if you just kept the same rule in place.

                          Whereas, if it’s a week prior, that puts the President and nominee in a far more precarious position. Do they wager that they are going to win and not issue the pardons? Or do they get worried that they might not win, start issuing pardons and risk angering the electorate?

                          I think both parties are at least a little annoyed with all of the pardons by both sides over the last few months, but there’s little to no electoral repercussions for 2 years, and that’s an eternity.

                          The Brad

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • C Copper
                            23 Jan 2025, 15:00

                            I like the president to have the power to pardon.

                            It may have been abused by both Biden and Trump.

                            I still like the president to have the power.

                            There are times when an individual can do the right thing when the bureaucracy can't.

                            8 Online
                            8 Online
                            89th
                            wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 16:49 last edited by
                            #18

                            @Copper said in Pardon reform proposal:

                            I still like the president to have the power.

                            There are times when an individual can do the right thing when the bureaucracy can't.

                            You know, it's better I guess to have the unlimited ability to pardon than to have the power to imprison. So I'll take it.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                              M Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 19:57 last edited by
                              #19

                              There is that.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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                                Horace
                                wrote on 23 Jan 2025, 20:22 last edited by
                                #20

                                If pardons didn't exist, it would be unthinkable to add them to the constitution. Weakening them is probably well and good.

                                Education is extremely important.

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