Dewey wrote a book!
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@89th said in Dewey wrote a book!:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dewey wrote a book!:
I don’t really understand the connection between being gay and having sex with your mother. Could somebody explain?
Depends if you're the daughter, I guess.
The serious answer... it's just a (real world) example of people drawing lines about what sexual behaviors or attractions are acceptable. 20 years ago I bet 0% of the world would say it's acceptable, now I bet 10% of the world thinks it's ok as long as the two people are consenting adults, as @Klaus said.
In other words, the facts haven't changed... I drew my line (mine, not others) a while ago and it hasn't changed, but it seems the line has changed for many people, politicians and young people especially, as compared to the 90s. The facts haven't changed about the sexual behaviors, just the cultural/pressure to be cool with it.
I think that is very true.
Not sure how true it is, but there are stories about in Roman times about public origies, etc. Or supposedly, the 1960's in the US will alot more permissable.
Like many things, cultural acceptance or non acceptance seems to go on a pendulum. Swings one way, things become more accepted. Then will go back.
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@Moonbat said in Dewey wrote a book!:
I should say that all my wife's friends are very intelligent knowledgeable wonderfull people (and none of them think i'm a Nazi) but they are the European left wing types with a background in the humanities and social sciences and i have very interesting discussions with them but where they are the one arguing for what i think you would call the popular 'progressive' view and i am arguing against. Hence her fears.
I do wonder whether i've become more conservative, they say that's what happens when you get older. But then again I don't think my views have changed much. Instead i think that popular progressive movements have gone nuts. Then again maybe that's what you guys thought 20 years ago.
Interesting. I think the lines have moved, but we haven't so much.
And while I'd like to end on that nice note. I'd argue this is what conservatism is all about... there is a natural, inevitable, shift towards the left in terms of culture.... conservatism (at least to me) is in the business of preserving, or at least... slowing that shift. Sometimes at the expense of sounding bigoted even if that is not the intent. One could argue any form of tradition or culture is bigoted, albeit not the 2nd half of the definition that indicates an antagonistic view of those not in that culture/belief.
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@taiwan_girl said in Dewey wrote a book!:
@89th said in Dewey wrote a book!:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dewey wrote a book!:
I don’t really understand the connection between being gay and having sex with your mother. Could somebody explain?
Depends if you're the daughter, I guess.
The serious answer... it's just a (real world) example of people drawing lines about what sexual behaviors or attractions are acceptable. 20 years ago I bet 0% of the world would say it's acceptable, now I bet 10% of the world thinks it's ok as long as the two people are consenting adults, as @Klaus said.
In other words, the facts haven't changed... I drew my line (mine, not others) a while ago and it hasn't changed, but it seems the line has changed for many people, politicians and young people especially, as compared to the 90s. The facts haven't changed about the sexual behaviors, just the cultural/pressure to be cool with it.
I think that is very true.
Not sure how true it is, but there are stories about in Roman times about public origies, etc. Or supposedly, the 1960's in the US will alot more permissable.
Like many things, cultural acceptance or non acceptance seems to go on a pendulum. Swings one way, things become more accepted. Then will go back.
Agreed, although the momentum to go back seems weaker, in the long term.
That being said... even as we have this inevitable march towards secularism or liberalism (not in the Kamala way... more in the "anything goes" way), I do have a feeling and hope that society will focus more on the merits and production of a person. "How do they treat me, how do they help others, how do they help society".
As somewhat of a conservative libertarian, I'm cool with that... live and let live, even if the "live" part includes being able to state your opinions that offend others. As it applies to this thread, believe it or not I'm fine with homosexuals doing their thing. Live and let live. I think I said back in 2007... have a relationship with your cat for all I care. When it comes to government policy I do think there is a logical line to be drawn, but that's another story.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Dewey wrote a book!:
@89th said in Dewey wrote a book!:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dewey wrote a book!:
I don’t really understand the connection between being gay and having sex with your mother. Could somebody explain?
Depends if you're the daughter, I guess.
The serious answer... it's just a (real world) example of people drawing lines about what sexual behaviors or attractions are acceptable. 20 years ago I bet 0% of the world would say it's acceptable, now I bet 10% of the world thinks it's ok as long as the two people are consenting adults, as @Klaus said.
In other words, the facts haven't changed... I drew my line (mine, not others) a while ago and it hasn't changed, but it seems the line has changed for many people, politicians and young people especially, as compared to the 90s. The facts haven't changed about the sexual behaviors, just the cultural/pressure to be cool with it.
Maybe it’s not just cultural pressure. I’m a lot smarter about some things than I was 40 years ago. A scary thought, possibly. Imagine how freaking dumb I was back then!
Fair enough... as it relates to this topic, maybe your position hasn't changed, and it's ok if it has... just the facts haven't, and it's surprising how many people have let their sails change directions so they don't accidentally dock into the Port of Unpopularity.
(My view has changed over time as well on a number of topics.... change is possible!)
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@89th said in Dewey wrote a book!:
Understood, which is why I try to emphasize that my use of disorder does not have the intent to be insulting but a way of classifying behavior... if a man is unable to produce sperm, or a woman unable to ovulate, or a person attracted to the same sex, these are all forms of procreative defections, even if some can be mitigated by science. And the blunt purpose of sex is to procreate, although we know there are other benefits as well...
Ok so it seems like from what you wrote (not just this quoted section) that you accept that the perspective you articulate has some explicitly religious character (because from the secular perspective the notion of 'purpose' is metaphorical and so loses significance, while notions of physical/mental health 'ideal' are subjective). I also understand you don't mean it to be insulting, and I completely believe you when say you don't have any ill-intentions. I guess the reason the youth will pick up battle axes about this stuff is because ultimately calling people inferior is unavoidably stigmatising because the word is intrinsically value-laden.
I do see this won't move you because yeah you have a religious component which means in some ways you think there really is a purpose that some creator had in mind and that you ultimately lay claim to know what it is, and so to you the statements are truth claims... I think probably we can't really move beyond this point without examining the components of our respective world views and I'm quite sure since I failed to convince you 15 years ago, when i was far sharper on the topic I would have little chance now :).
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LOL you're just as sharp now. And I'm not calling gay people inferior, I'm just labeling the concept of homosexuality as what it seems to be... a sexual attraction disorder that perhaps someone is born with, or is learned, or a combination thereof. This initially came up in this thread under the topic of pedophiles having character issues or something, which is obviously not the same thing as homosexuality, but did bring up (in my mind) the spectrum of sexual attraction disorders and where folks draw the line from both a legally protected standpoint as well as a culturally accepted standpoint... a line that seems to continue to shift or dare I say, evolve.
