Riddle me this, Trump supporters
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@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
Sure a six three court stopped affirmative action. And that’s big. But that’s in the bag, as is a guaranteed (ignoring outlier improbabilities) conservative court for the foreseeable future. What’s left to gain on the SCOTUS front that would compensate for the resurgence of wokeness in institutions?
You're writing a check about a resurgence of wokeness that hasn't yet been cashed. Biden stood in front of the American people and said white supremacy was the #1 threat our country faces. He stood in front of a graduating class at an historically black college and told them the country hates them and that the deck will always be stacked against them. None of that will happen under Trump, we can at least be confident of that. We can also be confident that during the Biden administration, Trump has picked up black supporters.
If you think Trump gets elected and the presidents of all the universities go as woke as ever, then you can go ahead and believe that. It's of no consequence to what will actually happen.
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The culture is a magnificent beast, and you are giving Trump a great deal of control over it, because it suits your rhetorical goal of establishing that Trump supporters are own-goaling. Along those lines, I have reminded you that your own intense reaction to Trump aligns with those "woke" reactions you think will resurge. Yet you don't think you're own-goaling. You don't actually care if you give oxygen to outraged anti-social tantrums against Trump, because you don't personally support those particular reactions, so it's not your fault, right? But you expect Trump supporters to take responsibility for those same reactions. It's not nearly the good point you think it is. I suggest sharing it with your twitter feed if you'd like awesome positive reinforcement about it.
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you expect Trump supporters to take responsibility for those same reactions
I’m just trying to get them to stop lying to themselves and at least accept the trade off they’re making, as Jolly did.
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you expect Trump supporters to take responsibility for those same reactions
I’m just trying to get them to stop lying to themselves and at least accept the trade off they’re making, as Jolly did.
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
you expect Trump supporters to take responsibility for those same reactions
I’m just trying to get them to stop lying to themselves and at least accept the trade off they’re making, as Jolly did.
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
Whether "wokeness" increases, well, to measure it, you'll have to define it, and it's my understanding that there is no accepted definition.
I am sure plenty of evidence for whatever rhetorical point you want to make, will exist on Twitter, and I look forward to seeing it here, if Trump wins.
Education is extremely important.
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I’m specifically asking people to disagree with it or tell me why ‘this time is different’.
Which of my statements do you disagree with?
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
tell me why ‘this time is different’.
Exactly, the time is different.
The pendulum has moved, it has a long period.
The momentum seems to be going in the right direction.
Let's keep it going in the right direction.
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@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
you expect Trump supporters to take responsibility for those same reactions
I’m just trying to get them to stop lying to themselves and at least accept the trade off they’re making, as Jolly did.
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
Whether "wokeness" increases, well, to measure it, you'll have to define it, and it's my understanding that there is no accepted definition.
I am sure plenty of evidence for whatever rhetorical point you want to make, will exist on Twitter, and I look forward to seeing it here, if Trump wins.
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
That elides the underlying point that many people are voting Trump because they’re tired of wokeness.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
That elides the underlying point that many people are voting Trump because they’re tired of wokeness.
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
That elides the underlying point that many people are voting Trump because they’re tired of wokeness.
And your prescription for them is that they vote for the more woke candidate, so the woke go to sleep because they'll think they've already won. 4D chess indeed. It's a compelling point in your own mind, and nowhere else. Well, your twitter feed too.
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if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
That elides the underlying point that many people are voting Trump because they’re tired of wokeness.
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
if you reframed your rhetorical question, you could say "will anti-Trump tantrums rise after Trump is elected", and you will probably find universal agreement.
That elides the underlying point that many people are voting Trump because they’re tired of wokeness.
You think anyone here is doing that? I don't. We can only answer for ourselves.
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You keep putting words in my mouth.
Go ahead and vote Trump, just don’t think you’re going to end wokeness that way.
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
You keep putting words in my mouth.
Go ahead and vote Trump, just don’t think you’re going to end wokeness that way.
It's wish-casting to believe with your certainty that "wokeness" will increase after Trump. What will definitely increase, is moral panic around a tribal idea of "an existential threat". A moral panic that has always been headquartered in the institutions. If those same institutions are too cowardly, while in that moral panic, to fight back against cultural forces that existed long before Trump and will exist long after, then one can predict an increase in that "wokeness". If you would like to make that prediction, you can feel free. I don't care that much whether it increases, in fact when the other tribe makes a fool of itself, it's often taken with some pleasure. I think you can relate, as you giggle through the racist pet-eating memes.
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I rarely listen to Andrew Sullivan's podcast, but I am subscribed to it, and I noticed his guest today is none other than Rod Dreher, the own-goaler Trump voter from the original post in this thread. Sullivan entirely understands Dreher's point, and says that if Kamala is elected, there will be an even more emphatic woke revolution throughout the government. Not everybody is on board with jon's "incontrovertible, fact-based" take on this issue, where the perfectly rational anti-woke single-issue voter would actually vote for Kamala.
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It depends I persuadable but at the same time happy to agree to disagree with someone I respect.
I didn’t declare the incontrovertibly true. I said they seemed that way to me and specifically invited people to tell me why I’m wrong.
By the way, there’s still time to tell me which of those two statements you disagree with.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
I'm not a Trump supporter, but I think you got it wrong with #1.
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It depends I persuadable but at the same time happy to agree to disagree with someone I respect.
I didn’t declare the incontrovertibly true. I said they seemed that way to me and specifically invited people to tell me why I’m wrong.
By the way, there’s still time to tell me which of those two statements you disagree with.
@jon-nyc said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
It depends I persuadable but at the same time happy to agree to disagree with someone I respect.
I didn’t declare the incontrovertibly true. I said they seemed that way to me and specifically invited people to tell me why I’m wrong.
By the way, there’s still time to tell me which of those two statements you disagree with.
I already provided arguments about Trump's effectiveness in reigning in wokeness, and even provided examples of wokeness being perpetuated by Biden that Trump would not have perpetuated. But I am sure you can provide examples of wokeness that you can tie to Trump being in office. These anecdotal arguments about an ambiguous and unmeasurable term like "wokeness" might lead one to discard any notion of "incontrovertible truth". It's an unearned top shelf framing of what is actually just another opinion.
Why can a rational person expect things to be different a second time around? Because things will be different, to some degree. It would be irrational to expect them to be the same. Regarding the culture of wokeness, the pendulum and its momentum are not at the same place now as they were in 2015 leading up to that election. It's not a compelling argument to just assert that if Trump is in office, wokeness will follow its 2016 to 2020 trajectory. If you want to attempt to establish that with something beyond an assertion, please feel free. I don't even think TDS will be as pervasive this time around, much less a vaguely associated concept like "wokeness in the institutions".
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@Mik said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
We need that beating a dead horse emoji
By all means, ignore any and all posts you choose. Mind your own business if you don't like a thread. I couldn't possibly care less what you think of the latest pulp fiction serials on netflix, but I don't poop on your threads about it.
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@Mik said in Riddle me this, Trump supporters:
Things always get testy around presidential elections.
lol.
Some people do seem a little irritable. We could of course look upon it as an opportunity....
I was only joking
