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The New Coffee Room

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  2. General Discussion
  3. You have the right to flip off a cop

You have the right to flip off a cop

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    https://reason.com/2024/07/18/man-who-was-arrested-for-flipping-off-cop-settles-for-175000/?utm_campaign=reason_brand&utm_content=&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=


    In February 2018, Bombard was stopped by Vermont State Trooper Riggen, who believed Bombard had given him the finger while driving—an allegation Bombard denies. However, after Riggen walked away from the car, Bombard flipped Riggen off and swore at the officer in frustration for having been pulled over.

    In response, Riggen pulled Bombard over again and arrested him for disorderly conduct. "The first one may have been an error," said Riggen during the arrest, referring to the reason for the initial stop, but "the second one certainly was not."

    Bombard's suit claimed that, error or not, the action is constitutionally protected. "Giving the 'middle finger' and using curse words to protest a police officer's actions constitute expression that is protected by the First Amendment," wrote Bombard's counsel in his complaint.

    "The state settled in all likelihood because it was highly likely that a court would rule that Mr. Bombard's First Amendment rights were violated," Peter Teachout, a professor at Vermont Law School, says. "The First Amendment protects not only verbal communications but also 'expressive conduct,'" which could include gestures.

    "There is, in fact, a significant body of First Amendment and Fourth Amendment case law generated by police retaliating against people who hurt their feelings—most of it firmly upholding the right to hurl choice words or gestures at public officials," wrote Reason's C.J. Ciaramella last year. That includes a 2013 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit, which sided with a New York man who was arrested for giving a cop the middle finger, and a 2021 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, which ruled in favor of a Minnesota man whom a police officer pulled over and arrested because he flipped her the bird.

    In this case, Bombard's gesture expressed a very simple idea: distaste at Riggen for pulling him over. And, whether or not the officer knew it in the moment, expressions of such distaste are generally safeguarded by the First Amendment.

    "Police officers can't (in theory) arrest you for annoying them or even angering them," Rebecca Tushnet, a professor at Harvard Law School, tells Reason via email. "You have the right to be vituperative as long as you are not threatening."

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      that's one of those cases that it matters very little what is technically legal, because in the real world, people with badges and guns and a little plausible deniability, can fuck with you if they want to. This guy got very lucky if he won a battle of principle.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        He’s still a dumbass who does not deserve to reap any benefit.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          https://reason.com/2024/07/18/man-who-was-arrested-for-flipping-off-cop-settles-for-175000/?utm_campaign=reason_brand&utm_content=&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=


          In February 2018, Bombard was stopped by Vermont State Trooper Riggen, who believed Bombard had given him the finger while driving—an allegation Bombard denies. However, after Riggen walked away from the car, Bombard flipped Riggen off and swore at the officer in frustration for having been pulled over.

          In response, Riggen pulled Bombard over again and arrested him for disorderly conduct. "The first one may have been an error," said Riggen during the arrest, referring to the reason for the initial stop, but "the second one certainly was not."

          Bombard's suit claimed that, error or not, the action is constitutionally protected. "Giving the 'middle finger' and using curse words to protest a police officer's actions constitute expression that is protected by the First Amendment," wrote Bombard's counsel in his complaint.

          "The state settled in all likelihood because it was highly likely that a court would rule that Mr. Bombard's First Amendment rights were violated," Peter Teachout, a professor at Vermont Law School, says. "The First Amendment protects not only verbal communications but also 'expressive conduct,'" which could include gestures.

          "There is, in fact, a significant body of First Amendment and Fourth Amendment case law generated by police retaliating against people who hurt their feelings—most of it firmly upholding the right to hurl choice words or gestures at public officials," wrote Reason's C.J. Ciaramella last year. That includes a 2013 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit, which sided with a New York man who was arrested for giving a cop the middle finger, and a 2021 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, which ruled in favor of a Minnesota man whom a police officer pulled over and arrested because he flipped her the bird.

          In this case, Bombard's gesture expressed a very simple idea: distaste at Riggen for pulling him over. And, whether or not the officer knew it in the moment, expressions of such distaste are generally safeguarded by the First Amendment.

          "Police officers can't (in theory) arrest you for annoying them or even angering them," Rebecca Tushnet, a professor at Harvard Law School, tells Reason via email. "You have the right to be vituperative as long as you are not threatening."

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @George-K said in You have the right to flip off a cop:

          https://reason.com/2024/07/18/man-who-was-arrested-for-flipping-off-cop-settles-for-175000/?utm_campaign=reason_brand&utm_content=&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=


          In February 2018, Bombard was stopped by Vermont State Trooper Riggen, who believed Bombard had given him the finger while driving—an allegation Bombard denies. However, after Riggen walked away from the car, Bombard flipped Riggen off and swore at the officer in frustration for having been pulled over.

          In response, Riggen pulled Bombard over again and arrested him for disorderly conduct. "The first one may have been an error," said Riggen during the arrest, referring to the reason for the initial stop, but "the second one certainly was not."

          Bombard's suit claimed that, error or not, the action is constitutionally protected. "Giving the 'middle finger' and using curse words to protest a police officer's actions constitute expression that is protected by the First Amendment," wrote Bombard's counsel in his complaint.

          "The state settled in all likelihood because it was highly likely that a court would rule that Mr. Bombard's First Amendment rights were violated," Peter Teachout, a professor at Vermont Law School, says. "The First Amendment protects not only verbal communications but also 'expressive conduct,'" which could include gestures.

          "There is, in fact, a significant body of First Amendment and Fourth Amendment case law generated by police retaliating against people who hurt their feelings—most of it firmly upholding the right to hurl choice words or gestures at public officials," wrote Reason's C.J. Ciaramella last year. That includes a 2013 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit, which sided with a New York man who was arrested for giving a cop the middle finger, and a 2021 decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, which ruled in favor of a Minnesota man whom a police officer pulled over and arrested because he flipped her the bird.

          In this case, Bombard's gesture expressed a very simple idea: distaste at Riggen for pulling him over. And, whether or not the officer knew it in the moment, expressions of such distaste are generally safeguarded by the First Amendment.

          "Police officers can't (in theory) arrest you for annoying them or even angering them," Rebecca Tushnet, a professor at Harvard Law School, tells Reason via email. "You have the right to be vituperative as long as you are not threatening."

          Good, so knock out a taillight as you walk up to the car ...

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • 89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I’m weird I guess but I have never ever understood the desire to flick someone off nor felt any offense from seeing it. It’s the same as if someone held up their pinky at me.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              The right?? You have the obligation to flip off a cop.

              "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
              -Cormac McCarthy

              JollyJ CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                The right?? You have the obligation to flip off a cop.

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @jon-nyc said in You have the right to flip off a cop:

                The right?? You have the obligation to flip off a cop.

                You are not a product of the South, are you? 😄😄

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  I was born in Texas, but Aqua’s personality has rubbed off on me over the years.

                  "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                  -Cormac McCarthy

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Aqua is smarter than that.

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      The right?? You have the obligation to flip off a cop.

                      CopperC Offline
                      CopperC Offline
                      Copper
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @jon-nyc said in You have the right to flip off a cop:

                      You have the obligation to flip off a cop.

                      And then the copy is obliged to investigate anyone dumb enough.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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