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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Non-Compete

Non-Compete

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    https://natlawreview.com/article/federal-trade-commission-vote-proposed-non-compete-ban-april-23

    On April 16, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) announced that it will hold a special Open Commission Meeting on Tuesday, April 23 at 2:00 p.m. ET, for purposes of voting on its proposed final rule banning non-compete agreements.

    At that meeting, it is expected that the FTC will disclose the proposed final rule, Chair Lina Khan will offer brief remarks followed by a presentation by FTC staff, and then the Commission will vote whether to issue the final rule.

    As we have previously covered in detail (here, here, and here) the FTC issued its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in January 2023. The proposed rule in the form previously disclosed by the FTC for public comment would ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes. The proposed rule would apply broadly, not just to all employees, but also to independent contractors and to any individual who works for an employer, whether paid or unpaid (e.g., externs, interns, volunteers, apprentices, or sole proprietors). It also would apply not just to non-competes that expressly prohibit a worker from seeking or accepting certain employment after the conclusion of the worker’s employment with the employer, but also to any contractual provision that functions as a de facto non-compete.

    This is, potentially, a BFD for docs.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Great idea, and good for my daughter. I wonder how they feel about NDAs. In her industry they are very tight lipped about what they are doing for who. She can't even tell us.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG George K

        https://natlawreview.com/article/federal-trade-commission-vote-proposed-non-compete-ban-april-23

        On April 16, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) announced that it will hold a special Open Commission Meeting on Tuesday, April 23 at 2:00 p.m. ET, for purposes of voting on its proposed final rule banning non-compete agreements.

        At that meeting, it is expected that the FTC will disclose the proposed final rule, Chair Lina Khan will offer brief remarks followed by a presentation by FTC staff, and then the Commission will vote whether to issue the final rule.

        As we have previously covered in detail (here, here, and here) the FTC issued its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in January 2023. The proposed rule in the form previously disclosed by the FTC for public comment would ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes. The proposed rule would apply broadly, not just to all employees, but also to independent contractors and to any individual who works for an employer, whether paid or unpaid (e.g., externs, interns, volunteers, apprentices, or sole proprietors). It also would apply not just to non-competes that expressly prohibit a worker from seeking or accepting certain employment after the conclusion of the worker’s employment with the employer, but also to any contractual provision that functions as a de facto non-compete.

        This is, potentially, a BFD for docs.

        CopperC Offline
        CopperC Offline
        Copper
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @George-K said in Non-Compete:

        ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes.

        Doesn't that take a bargaining chip away from the employees?

        MikM 1 Reply Last reply
        • 89th8 Offline
          89th8 Offline
          89th
          wrote on last edited by 89th
          #4

          Interesting. A year ago I signed a non compete because there was drama with companies fighting over the same people. This would nullify my non compete, which I’m fine with. You can get paid more if the company knows you could switch easily to a competitor in the same space.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Not unusual for medical practices to have a non-compete in their employment contract. Frequently, the radius was 10-15 miles.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #6

              Years ago, a friend of mine was one among many laid off from some outfit after head office in the US decided close its office here. They were given two weeks in advance and non compete forms to sign or risk being fired on the spot. There was no compensation package offered as an incentive to sign. Everyone walked off the job on the spot. No one was left to fire.

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • LuFins DadL Offline
                LuFins DadL Offline
                LuFins Dad
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Non-competes are generally worthless if a former employee chooses to challenge them anyway. The only time that I’ve heard of them actually standing up to a court challenge was in the case of an employee taking his client list directly to a competitor.

                The Brad

                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                • CopperC Copper

                  @George-K said in Non-Compete:

                  ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes.

                  Doesn't that take a bargaining chip away from the employees?

                  MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Copper said in Non-Compete:

                  @George-K said in Non-Compete:

                  ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes.

                  Doesn't that take a bargaining chip away from the employees?

                  Quite the opposite.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                    Non-competes are generally worthless if a former employee chooses to challenge them anyway. The only time that I’ve heard of them actually standing up to a court challenge was in the case of an employee taking his client list directly to a competitor.

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #9

                    @LuFins-Dad

                    Here they only work or have teeth if the non compete is accompanied by a substantial financial payout to the employee.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Has to be some form f compensation here as well.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        There must be some way to take into account not transferring company "secrets" and strategies. NDA's or non-competes do serve a purpose.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Trade secrets can be protected, but non-competes are very hard to craft such that they will stand up. They have to be very narrow.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Mik

                            Trade secrets can be protected, but non-competes are very hard to craft such that they will stand up. They have to be very narrow.

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @Mik Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company, even if it is not direct "quantitative" information, but more "qualitative" information.

                            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Yes, that will happen in the course of employment. But it should not keep you from seeking employment in your field. A non-compete is what finally led me to go out on my own in consulting. They demanded I sign one and I declined.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                @Mik Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company, even if it is not direct "quantitative" information, but more "qualitative" information.

                                George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                                Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company

                                The situation in the medical field is quite different. The only "asset" you could probably take with you is your patient base. If you're someone without an office (radiology, pathology, anesthesiology) I don't understand why a non-compete would be justifiable, and yet, they exist.

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                                  Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company

                                  The situation in the medical field is quite different. The only "asset" you could probably take with you is your patient base. If you're someone without an office (radiology, pathology, anesthesiology) I don't understand why a non-compete would be justifiable, and yet, they exist.

                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                    @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                                    George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                                    @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                                    If your employer (group) had a non-compete, you'd have to find a job which is anywhere from 10-20 miles farther than your original place. Probably at least a 45 minute drive more.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246655366/ftc-bans-noncompete-agreements-lina-khan

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                                        taiwan_girl
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-blocks-biden-administration-ban-worker-noncompete-agreements-2024-07-03/

                                        A federal judge in Texas on Wednesday partially blocked a U.S. Federal Trade Commission rule from taking effect that would ban agreements commonly signed by workers not to join their employers' rivals or launch competing businesses.
                                        U.S. District Judge Ada Brown in Dallas said in a written decision the FTC, which enforces federal antitrust laws, lacked the power to adopt broad rules prohibiting practices that it deems unfair methods of competition.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/second-us-judge-blocks-ftc-ban-worker-noncompete-agreements-2024-08-15/

                                          A federal judge in Florida has temporarily blocked a U.S. Federal Trade Commission rule that would ban agreements commonly signed by workers not to join their employers' rivals or launch competing businesses, becoming the second judge to rule that the ban is likely invalid.

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