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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Was the media too alarmist?

Was the media too alarmist?

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    Hindsight is 20/20. Ask Lombardy if they wish they'd have taken the steps we have earlier.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #9

      True, but the Italian medical system is not the best in Europe.

      Look, I can see it coming...No nation is so rich it can shutter most of its economy forever. As the economic pressures build, and the models trend downward, eventually people will howl to reopen the economy. People will make what they consider to be the most rational decision, and that may mean you and I, Jon, Aqua and whoever else, have become expendable,or at least possible casualties of war.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by Mik
        #10

        I will never accept that. I agree that pressure to reopen will be great, but I think it will be done gradually, as the shutdown was imposed. Schools do not need to reopen. Social distance can be maintained without lockdown orders. Workplaces will find ways to keep space between people. But we're not just going to throw the barn doors open and all back to normal.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          @Doctor-Phibes said in Was the media too alarmist?:

          I wish these people would just STFU and listen to people with expertise for a change.

          Maybe so, but the models(so far) have been seriously wrong. Therein lies the ammunition for the counter argument.

          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          @Jolly said in Was the media too alarmist?:

          @Doctor-Phibes said in Was the media too alarmist?:

          I wish these people would just STFU and listen to people with expertise for a change.

          Maybe so, but the models(so far) have been seriously wrong. Therein lies the ammunition for the counter argument.

          People with expertise are often wrong, however they're generally not wrong nearly as often as people without it.

          I was only joking

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            I will never accept that. I agree that pressure to reopen will be great, but I think it will be done gradually, as the shutdown was imposed. Schools do not need to reopen. Social distance can be maintained without lockdown orders. Workplaces will find ways to keep space between people. But we're not just going to throw the barn doors open and all back to normal.

            JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #12

            @Mik said in Was the media too alarmist?:

            I will never accept that.

            You won't, and I ain't too spiffy with it, but right now we're swimming in a sea of government money. One third of Americans will not make their rent payments. It's going to get worse, if the current levels of shutdown continue. The worst case scenario is another Great Depression, and everything that comes with it.

            With massive amounts of fiat money, comes hyperinflation. In a world where most people are destitute and cannot afford food, people will rationalize anything.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by
              #13

              The key is going to be balancing the risk with the reward. An outcome like that of 1920 would be as unacceptable to most people as would an outcome like 1929.

              I was only joking

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                I wish these people would just STFU and listen to people with expertise for a change.

                CopperC Offline
                CopperC Offline
                Copper
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                @Doctor-Phibes said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                listen to people with expertise

                Identify them

                1 Reply Last reply
                • CopperC Offline
                  CopperC Offline
                  Copper
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  And, yes, the media was too alarmist, by a lot

                  But on their behalf I'll say I suspect that was the job they were asked to do.

                  The people watching the media let us down.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    flu

                    Please love yourself.

                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    • CopperC Offline
                      CopperC Offline
                      Copper
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      Still leading but not for long

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                        flu

                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                        flu

                        One month ago.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                        • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          That's a great point, Donald! Especially when you consider which one of those is experiencing exponential (read: like, rilly fast) growth and the other one has been going down in cases since 1950!

                          Please love yourself.

                          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                            flu

                            One month ago.

                            CopperC Offline
                            CopperC Offline
                            Copper
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            @jon-nyc said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                            flu

                            One month ago.

                            That is hilarious!

                            Imagine being concerned about only 37,000 deaths?

                            Crazy.

                            Where do we find characters like this?

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              It’s a loaded question. Who are “the media” and what do you mean “too alarmist”?

                              Fox News? Yeah, Fox News is “too alarmist” on certain “voter fraud” and “undocumented immigrants” issues and is plain misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                              Is the @realDunaldTrump twitter handle part of “the media”? (Go ahead and argue that an information distribution channel that has over 75 million followers is not part of “the media”.) That too is often misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                              JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                That's a great point, Donald! Especially when you consider which one of those is experiencing exponential (read: like, rilly fast) growth and the other one has been going down in cases since 1950!

                                JollyJ Offline
                                JollyJ Offline
                                Jolly
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                                That's a great point, Donald! Especially when you consider which one of those is experiencing exponential (read: like, rilly fast) growth and the other one has been going down in cases since 1950!

                                1. There wasn't a test for flu in the 1950's. A lot of diagnoses back then were made on symptoms.
                                2. It's true that COVID is more contagious than the flu. But you're lucky, you can work from home. A lot of people cannot do that. They're hurting financially already.

                                How important are you and I in the grand scheme of things?

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                  It’s a loaded question. Who are “the media” and what do you mean “too alarmist”?

                                  Fox News? Yeah, Fox News is “too alarmist” on certain “voter fraud” and “undocumented immigrants” issues and is plain misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                                  Is the @realDunaldTrump twitter handle part of “the media”? (Go ahead and argue that an information distribution channel that has over 75 million followers is not part of “the media”.) That too is often misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  @Axtremus said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                                  It’s a loaded question. Who are “the media” and what do you mean “too alarmist”?

                                  Fox News? Yeah, Fox News is “too alarmist” on certain “voter fraud” and “undocumented immigrants” issues and is plain misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                                  Is the @realDunaldTrump twitter handle part of “the media”? (Go ahead and argue that an information distribution channel that has over 75 million followers is not part of “the media”.) That too is often misinformed and misleading regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.

                                  Opinion masquerading as fact, aren't you?

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    "too alarmist" is by it's very nature an opinion.

                                    Some conservatives went ape-shit about Ebola, and then completely downplayed Covid.

                                    I was only joking

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      I read today that Sweden wasn't enforcing social distancing and wasn't closing schools. They are politely asking their populace to do what they can not to catch or spread the virus. This is apparently not resulting in anything resembling the sort of social distancing we're experiencing elsewhere.

                                      So, my question is, will Sweden be providing some hard evidence one way or the other regarding how much enforcement was necessary? I mean, assuming they stay this course throughout the epidemic.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote on last edited by LuFins Dad
                                        #26

                                        Sorry, but the IMHE models had flaws that were being pointed out weeks ago by dumbasses like me. If I can see those flaws, then the statisticians and epidemiologists could as well, and a lot more. So the fact is that they either let the flaws slide to manipulate the public opinion as well as the policy decisions or they were criminally incompetent.

                                        I am/was all for the steps taken to this point. I believe the states should have instituted they have and some weren't strong enough. But it NEVER should have been done by presenting those numbers.

                                        The Brad

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Horace

                                          I read today that Sweden wasn't enforcing social distancing and wasn't closing schools. They are politely asking their populace to do what they can not to catch or spread the virus. This is apparently not resulting in anything resembling the sort of social distancing we're experiencing elsewhere.

                                          So, my question is, will Sweden be providing some hard evidence one way or the other regarding how much enforcement was necessary? I mean, assuming they stay this course throughout the epidemic.

                                          jon-nycJ Offline
                                          jon-nycJ Offline
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                          #27

                                          @Horace said in Was the media too alarmist?:

                                          I read today that Sweden wasn't enforcing social distancing and wasn't closing schools. They are politely asking their populace to do what they can not to catch or spread the virus. This is apparently not resulting in anything resembling the sort of social distancing we're experiencing elsewhere.

                                          So, my question is, will Sweden be providing some hard evidence one way or the other regarding how much enforcement was necessary? I mean, assuming they stay this course throughout the epidemic.

                                          My understanding is they encourage social distancing, banned large public gatherings (eg 100s) but not small ones. They’ve closed universities and high schools, but not elementary schools.

                                          Imperial College estimates their R value to be the highest in Europe. See graphs on pp 6-8

                                          https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-Europe-estimates-and-NPI-impact-30-03-2020.pdf

                                          It is an interesting experiment, I don’t think the public will allow it to run to conclusion, though.

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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