Scrap the debates

jon-nyc · 13 Aug 2020, 02:00

You’re high.

Unemployment hit a local minimum before hitting a 90 year maximum.

Like with virtually every president before him, the stock market hit new highs. But then much of gains were given back.

The world is less stable than how he found it and our position in it less secure.

The internal stability of the nation is at either a 50- or 150- year low (it’s too early to tell which).

He’s not even tried to manage the pandemic, rather he manages news cycles within it. And he only does that when a Fox personality guilts him into it.

The country is in far worse shape than it was 4 years ago.

89th · 13 Aug 2020, 02:31

As of January 2020, per the state of the union address, the USA was in its best shape EVAH. The pandemic is likely a finite issue, and I think people know that. BLM and associated protests are becoming blah, as expected.

Can people blame Trump for his handling of the pandemic? Sure. I blame him, to an extent.

But I think Trump will have enough stats to throw out to generally deflect the predictable jabs Biden will make. He will have more energy and better jabs than Biden will and Biden risks having forgetful or mumbling moments, plus his teeth might even fall out.

These debates are Trump’s to lose.

Loki · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:00

@jon-nyc said in Scrap the debates:

@Loki

You’re high.

Unemployment hit a local minimum before hitting a 90 year maximum.

Like with virtually every president before him, the stock market hit new highs. But then much of gains were given back.

The world is less stable than how he found it and our position in it less secure.

The internal stability of the nation is at either a 50- or 150- year low (it’s too early to tell which).

He’s not even tried to manage the pandemic, rather he manages news cycles within it. And he only does that when a Fox personality guilts him into it.

The country is in far worse shape than it was 4 years ago.

If you think we had Iran, Russia, China and North Korea were contained you are drinking your bath water. And Europe’s problems could not be helped by the US so I don’t know who’s standing we have lost ground in. Prove your case.

jon-nyc · 13 Aug 2020, 02:15

I didn’t claim any particular nation was contained.

I said we’re worse off on almost every important metric, in the country and in the world.

Loki - do you believe the country is in a better spot today than 4 years ago?

Do you believe the world is? Serious questions, both.

Loki · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:15

@jon-nyc said in Scrap the debates:

I didn’t claim any particular nation was contained.

I said we’re worse off on almost every important metric, in the country and in the world.

Loki - do you believe the country is in a better spot today than 4 years ago?

Do you believe the world is? Serious questions, both.

No and no. Resounding now, largely attributed to Covid. Trump’s success was as a strongman in a world dominated by strongmen. I don’t like how we got there pre-Covid but the opposition has been so bat shit crazy that I am truly flummoxed as to which is worse. My end game would be a take down of a Trump and the Zucker’s of the world, of which I call him out because he is merely representative of the problem.

Horace · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:16

I listened to Ezra Klein's show of a few days ago where he had a RINO on who hates Trump and wrote a book. I was honestly hoping to get insights. It was one of the most vacuous interviews I'd ever heard. The issue with TDS folk is that they are too consumed by their hatred to dispassionately judge ideas. The money quote in the interview was "more americans died in the last four months than in any other four month period. So how's Trump working out?". Zing! I guess that's the same sort of zinger as saying that unemployment hit a 90 year max.

taiwan_girl · 13 Aug 2020, 02:37

@89th said in Scrap the debates:

As of January 2020, per the state of the union address, the USA was in its best shape EVAH

The problem for President Trump is that his term did not end in January 2020.

If you are going to claim the successes, then you HAVE to claim the failures, right @Horace (just teasing you!!).

As President Truman say - "The buck stops here"

A president can't say - "Well, I did great for the first three years. Just dont bother looking at the last year!!!"

Personally, i do not blame President Trump for what has happened to the economy over the past 6 months. (But I also dont give him as much credit as he economically claims for the first three years 55555)

Unemployment
Nov 2016 = 4.7%
July 2020 = 10.2%

SP 500
Nov 2016 = 2594
July 2020 = 3295

GDP Growth
Annual during President Trump = (-2%)
2017 = 2.3%
2018 = 3.0%
2019 = 2.2%
2020 = -10%

Debt
Nov 2016 = $19.9 trillion
July 2020 = $26.5 trillion
(increase of 33%)

Horace · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:37

@taiwan_girl said in Scrap the debates:

@89th said in Scrap the debates:

As of January 2020, per the state of the union address, the USA was in its best shape EVAH

The problem for President Trump is that his term did not end in January 2020.

If you are going to claim the successes, then you HAVE to claim the failures, right @Horace (just teasing you!!).

We are all free to judge by any criteria we see fit. I suspect you will find a strong correlation between those who do not like Trump and those who think he is obligated to accept blame for the effects of the pandemic.

jon-nyc · 13 Aug 2020, 02:46

@taiwan_girl said in Scrap the debates:

GDP Growth
Annual during President Trump = (-2%)
2017 = 2.3%
2018 = 3.0%
2019 = 2.2%
2020 = -10%

No, no, no. 2020 isn’t annualized. It was -32.9% in the 2nd quarter.

Loki · 13 Aug 2020, 02:47

@jon-nyc said in Scrap the debates:

@taiwan_girl said in Scrap the debates:

GDP Growth
Annual during President Trump = (-2%)
2017 = 2.3%
2018 = 3.0%
2019 = 2.2%
2020 = -10%

No, no, no. 2020 isn’t annualized. It was -32.9% in the 2nd quarter.

We will see how long Biden keeps the US shut down after he is President. This is going to be fun to watch. But no one will care when I point out how much the narrative changed.

taiwan_girl · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:46

@jon-nyc Ah okay. I must have misread the table I was looking at. Thanks Jon for the correction!

taiwan_girl · L Loki 13 Aug 2020, 02:46

@Loki said in Scrap the debates:

But no one will care when I point out how much the narrative changed.

I disagree. The President should be accountable, no matter who he is.

Horace · 13 Aug 2020, 03:20

There are those who may be inclined to judge people based on how they played the hand they were dealt, rather than mostly judging the hand they were dealt. You are advocating for judging the person by the random deal. Which is your prerogative, but to me it doesn't seem very well considered.

jon-nyc · 13 Aug 2020, 03:29

For the most part it’s how presidencies are judged. As if the buck stops with them.

jon-nyc · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 02:58

Clinton once complained out loud that he didn’t have a chance to be a truly great president because there was no crisis of the appropriate scale.

It was true as far as it went, but seemed like bad form to complain about it

Doctor Phibes · H Horace 13 Aug 2020, 02:52

@Horace said in Scrap the debates:

There are those who may be inclined to judge people based on how they played the hand they were dealt, rather than mostly judging the hand they were dealt. You are advocating for judging the person by the random deal. Which is your prerogative, but to me it doesn't seem very well considered.

I remember people here comparing Donald Trump to Winston Churchill.

And not just because he's a fat old bastard who sounds drunk the whole time.

Rainman · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 03:21

There is certainly one thing those of you suffering from TDS need to consider:
What if Biden/Harris wins?

Then what?

You do realize that some folks here will then be on offense and in the luxurious position of criticizing, complete with facts, figures, and mind-reading.

It's the old "watch what you wish for, it might come true."

The Portland DA announced that for most crimes associated with rioting, there will be no prosecution. Everyone's being let off, to come back and head more and more into the suburbs to hit the ~~bars~~ residential neighborhoods. Maybe if Biden wins, that can become more of a national policy? In other words, Biden/Harris will support the examples being set in Chicago, PDX, LA, etc. Right? That would be one wish coming true, I guess.

I wish Trump would give anyone living in Hong Kong a new home. I don't suppose Hong Kong takes trade-ins?

Doctor Phibes · 13 Aug 2020, 04:02

@Rainman said in Scrap the debates:

What if Biden/Harris wins?
Then what?
You do realize that some folks here will then be on offense and in the luxurious position of criticizing, complete with facts, figures, and mind-reading.
It's the old "watch what you wish for, it might come true."

My God, how will we cope? Criticism? Facts and figures? PEOPLE BEING RUDE ON THE INTERNET???? Say it ain't so!

I'll need a safe space. And the pubs are all closed.

Horace · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 03:29

@jon-nyc said in Scrap the debates:

For the most part it’s how presidencies are judged. As if the buck stops with them.

That loser Lincoln couldn't even survive his own presidency.

Rainman · wrote on 13 Aug 2020, 04:02

@Doctor-Phibes said in Scrap the debates:

@Rainman said in Scrap the debates:

What if Biden/Harris wins?
Then what?
You do realize that some folks here will then be on offense and in the luxurious position of criticizing, complete with facts, figures, and mind-reading.
It's the old "watch what you wish for, it might come true."

My God, how will we cope? Criticism? Facts and figures? PEOPLE BEING RUDE ON THE INTERNET???? Say it ain't so!

I'll need a safe space. And the pubs are all closed.

You left out mind-reading. That's the most important, and you left it out!
By then, I will also be expert world-champion mind-reader. Can't wait!

Oh yeah, almost losing my touch, give me a second. . .

BREXIT!!!!

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Scrap the debates