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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?

Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • CopperC Copper

    @Renauda said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

    Probably because there were a no monuments to Confederate war heroes when they were alive.

    No, because they were committed to reconciliation.

    They were much bigger than the trash that surrounds these monuments now.

    RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on last edited by Renauda
    #25

    @Copper said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

    @Renauda said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

    Probably because there were a no monuments to Confederate war heroes when they were alive.

    No, because they were committed to reconciliation.

    They were much bigger than the trash that surrounds these monuments now.

    Glad you agree. But the fact remains neither Lincoln or Grant were alive when the monuments were erected.

    Elbows up!

    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Renauda

      @Copper said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

      @Renauda said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

      Probably because there were a no monuments to Confederate war heroes when they were alive.

      No, because they were committed to reconciliation.

      They were much bigger than the trash that surrounds these monuments now.

      Glad you agree. But the fact remains neither Lincoln or Grant were alive when the monuments were erected.

      JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #26

      @Renauda said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

      @Copper said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

      @Renauda said in Where’s the thread about the hostage friendly fire deaths?:

      Probably because there were a no monuments to Confederate war heroes when they were alive.

      No, because they were committed to reconciliation.

      They were much bigger than the trash that surrounds these monuments now.

      Glad you agree. But the fact remains neither Lincoln or Grant were alive when the monuments were erected.

      No, they weren't. But a good many Civil War veterans were still alive in 1914, when the Arlington monument was erected.

      I haven't researched it, but I can't recall reading about any grand movement against having the monument.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • bachophileB Offline
        bachophileB Offline
        bachophile
        wrote on last edited by bachophile
        #27

        some updated info

        about five days before the tragic deaths, the three hostages were in a different building about 1 km away from where they were shot. in that building, their captors were involved in a firefight with an israeli infantry unit. the unit sent in a dog (most units have a canine soldier for sniffing people and or explosives, not attack dogs) and this dog was killed as well as the captors but the building was not physically entered by the infantry. at some point the hostages understood the captors were killed and started moving carefully to see if they could contact israeli forces. there is evidence that they were in at least another building (they left hebrew graffiti on walls and SOS) before finally reaching the last building were they were shot. they wore track suits and bearded, so they looked very local (one was actually an arab who was also kidnapped from one of the kibbutz where he was employed)
        after the fact, after they were already killed, the original building was entered to evacuate the corpse of the dog (to give it a military funeral, as is the custom) and on the dog's go pro camera they saw the hostages alive. but this was already after the incident. if they had the camera earlier, they would have maybe understood there were hostages in the vicinity. but the fog of war....information was not available to the other unit.

        also it seems there were previous instances of hamas fighters calling out in hebrew from windows to draw in soldiers into a trap, so everyone was on a very tense hair trigger mode.
        doesnt excuse the screw up, they should not have been shot, but the shooters are being handled very delicately to try to avoid PTSD as much as possible, they were not taken out of gaza so the message would not be, you screwed up and you are out, they stayed in gaza until their units mission was done and came out today.

        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
        • bachophileB bachophile

          some updated info

          about five days before the tragic deaths, the three hostages were in a different building about 1 km away from where they were shot. in that building, their captors were involved in a firefight with an israeli infantry unit. the unit sent in a dog (most units have a canine soldier for sniffing people and or explosives, not attack dogs) and this dog was killed as well as the captors but the building was not physically entered by the infantry. at some point the hostages understood the captors were killed and started moving carefully to see if they could contact israeli forces. there is evidence that they were in at least another building (they left hebrew graffiti on walls and SOS) before finally reaching the last building were they were shot. they wore track suits and bearded, so they looked very local (one was actually an arab who was also kidnapped from one of the kibbutz where he was employed)
          after the fact, after they were already killed, the original building was entered to evacuate the corpse of the dog (to give it a military funeral, as is the custom) and on the dog's go pro camera they saw the hostages alive. but this was already after the incident. if they had the camera earlier, they would have maybe understood there were hostages in the vicinity. but the fog of war....information was not available to the other unit.

          also it seems there were previous instances of hamas fighters calling out in hebrew from windows to draw in soldiers into a trap, so everyone was on a very tense hair trigger mode.
          doesnt excuse the screw up, they should not have been shot, but the shooters are being handled very delicately to try to avoid PTSD as much as possible, they were not taken out of gaza so the message would not be, you screwed up and you are out, they stayed in gaza until their units mission was done and came out today.

          RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by
          #28

          @bachophile

          Thanks for the additional info, bach.

          Thanks too for bringing us back to the original topic.

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #29

            My heart goes out to the soldiers involved as well as the hostages and their families. The soldiers will carry a heavy load from this.

            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

            1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #30

              Indeed, thanks for the insights, @bachophile. It's a terrible event in a terrible environment.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #31

                Now, back to thread drift...

                Background
                The American Civil War ended in 1865, but it took many decades to heal the war’s bitter wounds. President William McKinley, a former Union soldier who would one day sit in the Oval Office, committed himself to healing the nation’s wounds. After the Spanish American War ended in the 1890s, he proposed building a memorial to reconciliation. His hope was that the Memorial would help heal the bitter sectionalism between the North and South and honor the many Southern soldiers whose contributions had helped to secure U.S. victory in the Spanish American War.

                Moses Ezekiel, the most prominent Jewish American sculptor of the American Renaissance (1870-1945), built the Reconciliation Memorial from 1912-1914. It features thirty-two full sized figures cast in bronze, depicting the universal experience families faced when their lives were interrupted by a call to combat. It was Ezekiel’s culminating work and his grave. The Memorial is surrounded by four-hundred graves in Section 16 of Arlington National Cemetery.

                One in a series dedicated to national healing and peacemaking—including the Memorial Bridge that links Virginia to Washington, D.C.—the Reconciliation Memorial was dedicated in 1914. This was the result of the combined efforts of four U.S. presidents: William McKinley, Howard Taft, Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson.

                Every U.S. president, from William McKinley to Barack Obama in 2009, has placed an honorary wreath at the Memorial’s base in a formal ceremony. After 2009, however, this ceremony stopped.

                In the aftermath of George Floyd’s death and the Black Lives Matter protests, momentum grew to destroy historic American monuments and memorials. Violent rioters defaced and vandalized the Lincoln Memorial and a World War One memorial, among many others.

                https://thevirginiacouncil.org/reconciliation-memorial-issue-brief/

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #32

                  They even defaced the statue of the fucking Massachusetts 54th regiment in Boston FFS.

                  Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #33

                    Say what?

                    I'm afraid we have some very big problems in our future....

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #34

                      In fairness they probably had no idea what the Mass 54th was.

                      Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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