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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Bled to death

Bled to death

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I get a medical malpractice newsletter. Some of it covers pretty routine stuff.

    I found this one shocking.

    Patient gets admitted with a new onset of atrial fibrillation to the emergency room. His a fib converts to regular rhythm, and he has started on a blood thinner, warfarin, also known as Coumadin. He is told to take the warfarin 3 mg a day, and his anticoagulation status will be reviewed.

    After taking the Coumadin, his coagulation is still not up to where it should be. He was being managed in the coagulation clinic.

    Three weeks later, his coagulation was still not quite controlled and he was instructed to take one and a half tablets ( 4.5 mg) parenthesis two days a week and 13 mg tablet on the other days of the week.

    He was running out of warfarin, so he called his cardiologist office for a refill, and the nurse called in a refill for him. The message indicated that he should take “4.5” on 2 days per week, and “3” on the remaining days.

    Unfortunately, the message was left without specifying the units of these doses. The nurse meant 3 milligrams per day, but the pharmacist filled it as 3 tablets per day.

    On the other days of the week, the prescription indicated he should take 4.5 tablets per day (as opposed to the correct dose of 4.5mg).

    The patient noticed, increased, bleeding, and bruising. His anticoagulation was sky high.

    Long story short, he was found in a pool of blood, and died the next day in the hospital.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Online
      89th8 Online
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Well isn't that a happy story to start the day.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Death by rat poison.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          We ran a pretty big Coumadin Clinic. The medicine doc wrote what he wanted the INR to be, standing orders for the PT draws, and after that, the pharmacist took care of dosing and most patient follow-up pertaining to that.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            THe docs in this case were dropped from the lawsuit.

            Only the hospital (and presumable the RN who was unclear in the order) settled for $750K.

            If you’re interested in the expret witness testimony:

            Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.24 AM.png Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.43 AM.png

            Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.12 AM.png
            Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.23 AM.png

            The newsletter comments:

            1. This case is fundamentally about a failure to communicate. The nurse and the pharmacist both felt that the instructions were clear, and didn’t realize the mistake until it was too late. Providing a written or electronic prescription would have reduced the likelihood of this error.
            2. While I was reflecting on this case, I remembered the words of some of my math and science teachers from as far back as grade school, admonishing students to label their units. It can be frustrating for students to miss points because they had the correct number but didn’t appropriately label the units, but this case is a perfect example of why its important.
            3. Medications with complicated dosing regimens are inherently more dangerous. This is readily apparent when comparing warfarin and factor Xa inhibitors. This case happened in 2016, long after the factor Xa inhibitors were available. I wonder if the higher price of the factor Xa inhibitors is what prompted them to choose warfarin.
            4. The communication between the coagulation clinic and Dr. C’s office made this situation much worse. It appears that the coagulation clinic was responsible for monitoring his INR and suggesting changes, but they did not actually manage the warfarin prescription. The prescriptions were routed through Dr. C’s office, creating a game of telephone that introduced both errors and significant delays.

            Considering his INR was so high - I wonder if they’d considered FFP to get it down. Vitamin K takes a long time.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG George K

              I get a medical malpractice newsletter. Some of it covers pretty routine stuff.

              I found this one shocking.

              Patient gets admitted with a new onset of atrial fibrillation to the emergency room. His a fib converts to regular rhythm, and he has started on a blood thinner, warfarin, also known as Coumadin. He is told to take the warfarin 3 mg a day, and his anticoagulation status will be reviewed.

              After taking the Coumadin, his coagulation is still not up to where it should be. He was being managed in the coagulation clinic.

              Three weeks later, his coagulation was still not quite controlled and he was instructed to take one and a half tablets ( 4.5 mg) parenthesis two days a week and 13 mg tablet on the other days of the week.

              He was running out of warfarin, so he called his cardiologist office for a refill, and the nurse called in a refill for him. The message indicated that he should take “4.5” on 2 days per week, and “3” on the remaining days.

              Unfortunately, the message was left without specifying the units of these doses. The nurse meant 3 milligrams per day, but the pharmacist filled it as 3 tablets per day.

              On the other days of the week, the prescription indicated he should take 4.5 tablets per day (as opposed to the correct dose of 4.5mg).

              The patient noticed, increased, bleeding, and bruising. His anticoagulation was sky high.

              Long story short, he was found in a pool of blood, and died the next day in the hospital.

              taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girl
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @George-K said in Bled to death:

              After taking the Coumadin, his coagulation is still not up to where it should be.

              Kind of a technical question:

              Coagulation is the clotting of blood. If his blood was not clotting, why would he be taking a blood thinner? That would seem to make it worse. What am I missing?

              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                THe docs in this case were dropped from the lawsuit.

                Only the hospital (and presumable the RN who was unclear in the order) settled for $750K.

                If you’re interested in the expret witness testimony:

                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.24 AM.png Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.43 AM.png

                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.12 AM.png
                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.23 AM.png

                The newsletter comments:

                1. This case is fundamentally about a failure to communicate. The nurse and the pharmacist both felt that the instructions were clear, and didn’t realize the mistake until it was too late. Providing a written or electronic prescription would have reduced the likelihood of this error.
                2. While I was reflecting on this case, I remembered the words of some of my math and science teachers from as far back as grade school, admonishing students to label their units. It can be frustrating for students to miss points because they had the correct number but didn’t appropriately label the units, but this case is a perfect example of why its important.
                3. Medications with complicated dosing regimens are inherently more dangerous. This is readily apparent when comparing warfarin and factor Xa inhibitors. This case happened in 2016, long after the factor Xa inhibitors were available. I wonder if the higher price of the factor Xa inhibitors is what prompted them to choose warfarin.
                4. The communication between the coagulation clinic and Dr. C’s office made this situation much worse. It appears that the coagulation clinic was responsible for monitoring his INR and suggesting changes, but they did not actually manage the warfarin prescription. The prescriptions were routed through Dr. C’s office, creating a game of telephone that introduced both errors and significant delays.

                Considering his INR was so high - I wonder if they’d considered FFP to get it down. Vitamin K takes a long time.

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @George-K said in Bled to death:

                THe docs in this case were dropped from the lawsuit.

                Only the hospital (and presumable the RN who was unclear in the order) settled for $750K.

                If you’re interested in the expret witness testimony:

                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.24 AM.png Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.40.43 AM.png

                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.12 AM.png
                Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 9.41.23 AM.png

                The newsletter comments:

                1. This case is fundamentally about a failure to communicate. The nurse and the pharmacist both felt that the instructions were clear, and didn’t realize the mistake until it was too late. Providing a written or electronic prescription would have reduced the likelihood of this error.
                2. While I was reflecting on this case, I remembered the words of some of my math and science teachers from as far back as grade school, admonishing students to label their units. It can be frustrating for students to miss points because they had the correct number but didn’t appropriately label the units, but this case is a perfect example of why its important.
                3. Medications with complicated dosing regimens are inherently more dangerous. This is readily apparent when comparing warfarin and factor Xa inhibitors. This case happened in 2016, long after the factor Xa inhibitors were available. I wonder if the higher price of the factor Xa inhibitors is what prompted them to choose warfarin.
                4. The communication between the coagulation clinic and Dr. C’s office made this situation much worse. It appears that the coagulation clinic was responsible for monitoring his INR and suggesting changes, but they did not actually manage the warfarin prescription. The prescriptions were routed through Dr. C’s office, creating a game of telephone that introduced both errors and significant delays.

                Considering his INR was so high - I wonder if they’d considered FFP to get it down. Vitamin K takes a long time.

                FFP + Cryo.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                  @George-K said in Bled to death:

                  After taking the Coumadin, his coagulation is still not up to where it should be.

                  Kind of a technical question:

                  Coagulation is the clotting of blood. If his blood was not clotting, why would he be taking a blood thinner? That would seem to make it worse. What am I missing?

                  George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @taiwan_girl said in Bled to death:

                  Coagulation is the clotting of blood. If his blood was not clotting, why would he be taking a blood thinner? That would seem to make it worse. What am I missing?

                  "Blood thinner" is a colloquialism for an anticoagulant.

                  Warfarin was the anticoagulant - the "thinner."

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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