More strange and/or foul reactions
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@xenon said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
All that said - it is beyond sad that civilians are dying. I don’t have a better solution to deal with Hamas - it does suck though.
I know people didn’t give much of a shit when it was brown on brown in other ME conflicts… still..
So whose fault is it that Civilians are dying? Who blocked roads preventing Palestinians from fleeing Gaza city? Who put the bunkers and missile batteries in hospitals and children’s playgrounds? And thousands of the missiles that have landed amongst innocent Palestinians were launched by Hamas.
@LuFins-Dad said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
@xenon said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
All that said - it is beyond sad that civilians are dying. I don’t have a better solution to deal with Hamas - it does suck though.
I know people didn’t give much of a shit when it was brown on brown in other ME conflicts… still..
So whose fault is it that Civilians are dying? Who blocked roads preventing Palestinians from fleeing Gaza city? Who put the bunkers and missile batteries in hospitals and children’s playgrounds? And thousands of the missiles that have landed amongst innocent Palestinians were launched by Hamas.
We’re in agreement on the facts and responsibility - doesn’t make the results any less tragic when the human shields die.
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I am just flabbergasted that there is any meaningful division in this….
Democratic Nation whose leadership must ultimately be responsive to the people it governs… Israel Yes, Palestine No.
Freedom of Press… Israel Yes, Palestine No
Civil Rights… do we even need to discuss this? Hamas still requires women to wear hijabs and be circumcised. They only just repealed their “Marry Your Rapist Law” and young girls are sold as brides. In the meantime, Israel has equal rights for all including their Palestinian Citizens. People ignore the fact that almost 20% of Israel’s population are Palestinian/Arab. There are Palestinian Knesset members serving in their government…
Hamas is being supported by Iran, Russia, North Korea… All bastions of freedom, liberty, and equality…. Not…
How are people being this idiotic?
@LuFins-Dad said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
I am just flabbergasted that there is any meaningful division in this….
Democratic Nation whose leadership must ultimately be responsive to the people it governs… Israel Yes, Palestine No.
Freedom of Press… Israel Yes, Palestine No
Civil Rights… do we even need to discuss this? Hamas still requires women to wear hijabs and be circumcised. They only just repealed their “Marry Your Rapist Law” and young girls are sold as brides. In the meantime, Israel has equal rights for all including their Palestinian Citizens. People ignore the fact that almost 20% of Israel’s population are Palestinian/Arab. There are Palestinian Knesset members serving in their government…
Hamas is being supported by Iran, Russia, North Korea… All bastions of freedom, liberty, and equality…. Not…
How are people being this idiotic?
Let's not forget that Jews are mostly democrats, too.
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@LuFins-Dad said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
I am just flabbergasted that there is any meaningful division in this….
Democratic Nation whose leadership must ultimately be responsive to the people it governs… Israel Yes, Palestine No.
Freedom of Press… Israel Yes, Palestine No
Civil Rights… do we even need to discuss this? Hamas still requires women to wear hijabs and be circumcised. They only just repealed their “Marry Your Rapist Law” and young girls are sold as brides. In the meantime, Israel has equal rights for all including their Palestinian Citizens. People ignore the fact that almost 20% of Israel’s population are Palestinian/Arab. There are Palestinian Knesset members serving in their government…
Hamas is being supported by Iran, Russia, North Korea… All bastions of freedom, liberty, and equality…. Not…
How are people being this idiotic?
Let's not forget that Jews are mostly democrats, too.
@89th said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
@LuFins-Dad said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
I am just flabbergasted that there is any meaningful division in this….
Democratic Nation whose leadership must ultimately be responsive to the people it governs… Israel Yes, Palestine No.
Freedom of Press… Israel Yes, Palestine No
Civil Rights… do we even need to discuss this? Hamas still requires women to wear hijabs and be circumcised. They only just repealed their “Marry Your Rapist Law” and young girls are sold as brides. In the meantime, Israel has equal rights for all including their Palestinian Citizens. People ignore the fact that almost 20% of Israel’s population are Palestinian/Arab. There are Palestinian Knesset members serving in their government…
Hamas is being supported by Iran, Russia, North Korea… All bastions of freedom, liberty, and equality…. Not…
How are people being this idiotic?
Let's not forget that Jews are mostly democrats, too.
It’s not just a right/left issue. There are plenty of American Alt-Right zealots supporting Hamas over Israel, too. This is a basic fundamental question. Either you support a country with democratic principles of a government that by necessity must be accountable to the people with freedom of religion, press, and speech. With basic protections to shelter the people from the abuses of the government or you support an autocratic regime that makes no such pretensions, that uses it’s citizens as human shields, and have no ultimate respect for human life or dignity.
The Israeli government may not be perfect, no institution made up of people ever will be, and it faces threats that bleeding hearts on both sides of the debate simply cannot comprehend, but at least they are trying to do the right things and it again is simply incomprehensible to me that the general public cannot see that.
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I mean the reason the palestinians have support is simple, even if you don't agree with it. They fit perfectly with western progressive victim narratives. That narrative is all but religious to many young westerners (especially female), concerned with their souls and being on the right side of history. And with seeming like good people to their social group. That last bit is getting substantial push back, which is interesting. Usually, facile virtue signals get no pushback.
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@George-K said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
This one is a little sketchy, IMO. I don’t like an employee wearing a very controversial symbol or emblem, and imagine that is likely against the rules. Still, pulling out the phone and publicly putting on that kind of display? Dick move. Here’s an idea… If you are that offended by it, quietly approach the manager and tell them or try to engage in a calm and quiet conversation about it with the employee. You might actually have a small opportunity to educate someone or influence their opinion rather than win social media cred…
The Brad
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France surrenders [again]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67356581
A Vichy like regime will soon follow.
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@George-K said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
This one is a little sketchy, IMO. I don’t like an employee wearing a very controversial symbol or emblem, and imagine that is likely against the rules. Still, pulling out the phone and publicly putting on that kind of display? Dick move. Here’s an idea… If you are that offended by it, quietly approach the manager and tell them or try to engage in a calm and quiet conversation about it with the employee. You might actually have a small opportunity to educate someone or influence their opinion rather than win social media cred…
I agree with your general sentiment. I think Apple should (and perhaps does?) have rules against putting any kind of political messaging on employee uniforms.
But a Palestinian flag doesn’t necessarily mean ‘I support Hamas and their actions’.
One can confidently hold two thoughts in their head at once: (1) The Palestinian people are treated unjustly and that needs to change somehow and (2) Hamas is a terrorist organization with genocidal aspirations and needs to be physically destroyed.
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I agree with your general sentiment. I think Apple should (and perhaps does?) have rules against putting any kind of political messaging on employee uniforms.
But a Palestinian flag doesn’t necessarily mean ‘I support Hamas and their actions’.
One can confidently hold two thoughts in their head at once: (1) The Palestinian people are treated unjustly and that needs to change somehow and (2) Hamas is a terrorist organization with genocidal aspirations and needs to be physically destroyed.
@jon-nyc said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
One can confidently hold two thoughts in their head at once: (1) The Palestinian people are treated unjustly and that needs to change somehow and (2) Hamas is a terrorist organization with genocidal aspirations and needs to be physically destroyed.
To what extent do you think Palestinians are responsible for Hamas?
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To the same extent the Israelis are responsible for Bibi and his policies in the West Bank.
Actually to a much lesser extent. Hamas has long been unpopular in Gaza but the current generation never got a vote.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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Interestingly Hamas is more popular than Fatah in the West Bank and Fatah more popular than Hamas in Gaza. At least on 10/6. Not sure what the effects of recent events have been. I’m almost afraid to look into it. It would probably be disappointing.
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To the same extent the Israelis are responsible for Bibi and his policies in the West Bank.
Actually to a much lesser extent. Hamas has long been unpopular in Gaza but the current generation never got a vote.
@jon-nyc said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
Hamas has long been unpopular in Gaza
Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)
...half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”
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From your link, the longstanding result I reference.
In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014.
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From your link, the longstanding result I reference.
In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014.
@jon-nyc said in More strange and/or foul reactions:
From your link, the longstanding result I reference.
In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014.
Yes, I saw that, too, but it doesn't negate what I first posted from there. It seems Murray's point about partial responsibility still stands since Hamas enjoys at least partial support.
