Wannabe Dictator

89th

@89th said in Wannabe Dictator:

uber-patriotic

I agree with pretty much most of what you wrote, but I am wondering what is your definition of "uber-patriotic" means

Good question. Whether he is sincere about it, his platform and marketing had a USA FIRST message. That resonated with a lot of people, including me, that thought our country's attention was a bit too much on foreign affairs, foreign wars, being soft on illegal immigration, and so forth. We are certainly a world player, and world leader, but prior to Trump, there was a general approach that it's xenophobic to be so openly proud of your own country.

Renauda

@89th

Not sure about that. US has a long tradition of paying high respect to patriotism. At times even elevating that respect to exaltation. The US also has a history of eschewing nationalism or, at least the nationalism that was expressed through much of Europe in the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries.

Somehow though in the past twenty years populist nationalism has wormed its way into the tradition of patriotism. The Trump movement has picked up on that and has redefined patriotism to include those elements of populist nationalism. That is how I understand what you mean by Uber-patriotism.

Doctor Phibes

If they were really patriotic, they wouldn't use a German word to describe how patriotic they are

Renauda

@Doctor-Phibes

Well, there’s that too. Never thought of that.

Doctor Phibes

Or maybe they feel as though they've been driven to be patriotic by somebody else.

Aqua Letifer

Of the ride-or-die Trump supporters, how many of them are uncomfortable with their circumstances?

They feel okay with what they're able to provide for their families and don't feel financially threatened.
They don't feel vilified by large numbers of liberals
They feel free to pursue their values, interests and beliefs in public without having to put up with some asshole judging them for it.

And yet everyone's so perplexed and baffled by Trump's popularity.

Horace

Yep. Punching down and the glee therein for the mainstream virtuous set, has never been more obvious than in the Trump era. It’s because there’s an “existential threat”, so they’re cornered into being sneering assholes. They really don’t want to be. Never mind the drool, they just have rabies.

Renauda

Frankly, I believe that populist Jacobins on the left and ~~MAGATs~~ populist ersatz conservatives on the right are both rabid drooling beasts that the pose an “existential threat”’ to liberty and the common good. Together they deserve punching down with equal derision and sneering glee at their misinformed ideas, political illiteracy and rather unhinged minds.

taiwan_girl

@Renauda said in Wannabe Dictator:

There is a pattern among senior officers who worked either directly with Trump or close to him. To a man, they pretty much despise him not only as a leader but as a person as well.

And some more from John Kelly
https://www.salon.com/2024/03/11/he-said-hitler-did-some-good-things-ex-chief-of-staff-says-praised-hitler-in/

Former President Donald Trump praised German dictator Adolf Hitler while in the White House, former chief of staff John Kelly told CNN.

Trump repeatedly praised authoritarian leaders while serving as president, Kelly and other former senior advisers told CNN’s Jim Sciutto. Trump praised Chinese leader Xi Jinping, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the former aides said. But his most unnerving praise was for Hitler.

“He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things.’ I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, [Hitler] rebuilt the economy.’ But what did he do with that rebuilt economy? He turned it against his own people and against the world. And I said, ‘Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy. Nothing,’” Kelly recalled, according to Sciutto. “I mean, Mussolini was a great guy in comparison.”

“It’s pretty hard to believe he missed the Holocaust, though, and pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 American GIs that were killed in the European theater,” Kelly added. “But I think it’s more, again, the tough guy thing.”

It wasn’t just Hitler’s economic policies, Kelly said. Trump also expressed admiration for Hitler’s hold on senior Nazi officers as he lamented his own lack of staff “loyalty.”

“He would ask about the loyalty issues and about how, when I pointed out to him the German generals as a group were not loyal to him, and in fact tried to assassinate him a few times, and he didn’t know that,” Kelly recounted. “He truly believed, when he brought us generals in, that we would be loyal — that we would do anything he wanted us to do,” Kelly added.

Jolly

Ah, yes. Pearls of wisdom from Salon.

Carry on...

taiwan_girl

@Jolly Are you saying the the article is misquoting John Kelly and he did not say that?

Here is from the guy that spoke directly with John Kelly.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/11/politics/trump-despots-advisers-sound-alarm/index.html

“He thought Putin was an OK guy and Kim was an OK guy — that we had pushed North Korea into a corner,” retired Gen. John Kelly, who served as Trump’s chief of staff, told me. “To him, it was like we were goading these guys. ‘If we didn’t have NATO, then Putin wouldn’t be doing these things.’”

“He’s not a tough guy by any means, but in fact quite the opposite,” Kelly said. “But that’s how he envisions himself.”

Doctor Phibes

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

Ah, yes. Pearls of wisdom from Salon.

You're shooting the messenger? I'm surprised at you, Jolly.

Jolly

@Doctor-Phibes said in Wannabe Dictator:

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

Ah, yes. Pearls of wisdom from Salon.

You're shooting the messenger? I'm surprised at you, Jolly.

Thought you'd show up on that one. Yep, guilty. But I don't make a habit of it, as some do.

Jolly

BTW, I think we are going to see a lot more hit pieces, particularly if Trump can widen his lead. Biden is already on a swing state tour.

Going to be interesting to see how well he holds up.

Renauda

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Wannabe Dictator:

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

Ah, yes. Pearls of wisdom from Salon.

You're shooting the messenger? I'm surprised at you, Jolly.

Thought you'd show up on that one. Yep, guilty. But I don't make a habit of it, as some do.

I think Gen. Kelly in his capacity as former Chief of Staff to Trump, is credible even if the media outlet reporting his statements can be dodgy to some, myself included.

Mik

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

BTW, I think we are going to see a lot more hit pieces, particularly if Trump can widen his lead. Biden is already on a swing state tour.

Going to be interesting to see how well he holds up.

The ancient Chinese curse applies here. We're seeing as far as I know unprecedented things in national politics, and probably the best opportunity for a third party to arise.

Doctor Phibes

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

Thought you'd show up on that one. Yep, guilty. But I don't make a habit of it, as some do.

Right, so I dismiss Daily articles pretty much across the board*. You only dismiss articles because of the source when you don't like them?

*Unless they're critical of Trump, obviously. A man has to have some standards.

Jolly

Nope, you always shoot the messenger, on anything you don't agree with.

Always.

Jolly

@Mik said in Wannabe Dictator:

@Jolly said in Wannabe Dictator:

BTW, I think we are going to see a lot more hit pieces, particularly if Trump can widen his lead. Biden is already on a swing state tour.

Going to be interesting to see how well he holds up.

The ancient Chinese curse applies here. We're seeing as far as I know unprecedented things in national politics, and probably the best opportunity for a third party to arise.

You're seeing a different party in the GOP. It's undergoing a pretty significant overhaul.

Renauda

@Doctor-Phibes

Right, so I dismiss Daily articles pretty much across the board…

That hardly qualifies as shooting the messenger. The Daily Mail edits and reports what it considers news stories. As a source of news it is the choice, style and editing of the reporting that is questionable.

More often it is a garbage in, garbage out scenario that is not exclusive to the Mail. All sources need to be questioned and, if possible, corroborated. If the source is not trustworthy then how can one trust the messenger that brings it? You cannot.

The New Coffee Room

Wannabe Dictator