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  3. Hay Copper - plane crash question

Hay Copper - plane crash question

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  • 89th8 Offline
    89th8 Offline
    89th
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Wow, really good insight, more detailed than I expected. Thanks! It looks like the time from the 7500 height to the crash was about 2.5 minutes. The flight path didn't indicate any spins except at the very end.

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    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      Here is their training flight from the day prior, btw.

      image.png

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      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        And the day before that. Definitely some altitude climbs and rapid descents.

        image.png

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        • CopperC Offline
          CopperC Offline
          Copper
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          That flight was similar - lots of steep turns probably. Notice how the ground speed goes up and down - that is the effect of the wind, slow into the wind and then as the plane turns, fast with the wind behind him.

          While practicing steep turns he is trying to maintain a level altitude, this is more difficult with wind because you have to keep adjusting because into the wind you will tend to climb, and descend with a tail wind. the blue line shows lots of little ups and downs as he makes the adjustments.

          And yes, those rapid descents could be from practicing stalls, to practice stalls you would typically be flying at a slower speed.

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          • 89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            I'm glad I don't fly planes. 🙂

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            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
              #8

              Where was the flight yesterday? My buddy has his twin engine Diamond in Augsburg, he flies in and out of there all the time and hasn't heard about an accident.

              Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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              • 89th8 Offline
                89th8 Offline
                89th
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                The fatal flight yesterday 9/20 looks like it took off from Fritzlar or at least that's when the beacon started, since it seemed to have gone from Augsburg to Kiel earlier that morning, so maybe on the way back from Kiel.

                BTW, is this your buddy's plane? https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-iapc

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                • 89th8 Offline
                  89th8 Offline
                  89th
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  Is this him? LOL

                  image.png

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                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Wrong color.

                    The plane, not the buddy.

                    IMG_6983 copy.JPG

                    IMG_7076 copy.JPG

                    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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                    • 89th8 Offline
                      89th8 Offline
                      89th
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      Cool plane.

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                      • CopperC Copper

                        My training mostly involved not crashing, and I have not flown this model (Pilatus PC-9B), but I can try a little wild speculation.

                        The flightpath looks to me like a typical training flightpath. maybe doing some steep turns and other maneuvers.

                        Toward the end of the flight he gained some altitude and slowed down in increments. He would be doing something like this if he was setting up for some slow flight. This is typically done just above stall speed and with at least a few thousand feet of altitude so you have room to recover if you stall. And you might also be practicing stalls to learn how to recover.

                        It looks like just before the crash he was going around 100 knots, one source I saw says the stall speed for that plane is around 77 knots. But, of course, you can stall at any speed.

                        So, if he was practicing slow flight it is possible he got into a spin. A spin occurs when one wing stalls more than the other and drops abruptly. The stalled wing will drop and the plane will flip, ending up in a nose-down attitude. It can be very scary. You go from a nose-up attitude in slow flight to nose-straight down attitude at high speed in just a split second, it is very abrupt. And the plane is spinning around it's horizontal axis - which is now vertical. You go from seeing all-blue (sky) in the windshield to seeing all green (ground).

                        Flight instructors practice spins, regular students do not. However, students should be taught about spins and how to recover from a spin.

                        So, just in case you get into a spin, how do you recover? PARE

                        Power to idle (your nose is straight down and picking up speed fast)
                        Ailerons neutral to slow the spin
                        Rudder to stop spin
                        Elevator to break the stall and get your nose back up

                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        @Copper said in Hay Copper - plane crash question:

                        My training mostly involved not crashing,

                        LOL

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