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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. Pretty soon you're talking about real money

Pretty soon you're talking about real money

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    That sucks, Horace.

    I had a part time unpaid job after my transplant getting everything sorted out. Lasted for months. It got to where I had the desk number and email of a woman at United Health Care and we were sending spreadsheets back and forth with the status of various claims.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • LarryL Larry

      What country has single payer and no waiting line?

      KlausK Offline
      KlausK Offline
      Klaus
      wrote on last edited by
      #24

      @Larry said in Pretty soon you're talking about real money:

      What country has single payer and no waiting line?

      South Korea, Luxembourg, Japan, France, Norway, Denmark, to name a few.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        My impression is that reports from boots on the ground in various countries, as they consume their own health care, are overwhelmingly not in favor of the reports from Americans. More often than not it boils down to people from other countries agape at the stuff we Americans have to deal with and saying a silent thank you to their God that the don't have to.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #26

          They just need to refile. Errors like this are common.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          MikM 1 Reply Last reply
          • I Offline
            I Offline
            ILM
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            Horace,
            You don’t have to do anything. The price you see is the max retail price. Your insurance will cover your costs. Give it time, and you will see that your out-of-pocket will be much, much lower!!

            Aqua LetiferA JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
            • L Offline
              L Offline
              Loki
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              Horace let’s see what the surgery center says before we continue to speculate on the parade of horribles.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                I have pretty solid hints that this place intends for this to happen, and that this does not happen with other places. I am speculating but not much.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • I ILM

                  Horace,
                  You don’t have to do anything. The price you see is the max retail price. Your insurance will cover your costs. Give it time, and you will see that your out-of-pocket will be much, much lower!!

                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  @ILM said in Pretty soon you're talking about real money:

                  Horace,
                  You don’t have to do anything. The price you see is the max retail price. Your insurance will cover your costs. Give it time, and you will see that your out-of-pocket will be much, much lower!!

                  I think that's right.

                  Please love yourself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • I ILM

                    Horace,
                    You don’t have to do anything. The price you see is the max retail price. Your insurance will cover your costs. Give it time, and you will see that your out-of-pocket will be much, much lower!!

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    @ILM said in Pretty soon you're talking about real money:

                    Horace,
                    You don’t have to do anything. The price you see is the max retail price. Your insurance will cover your costs. Give it time, and you will see that your out-of-pocket will be much, much lower!!

                    Not in my experience, unless you want it to get really nasty(Jolly, who has been known to rack up several years of >$100,000 full retail bills)

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      There is no margin in letting it be, and as far as I'm aware, the laws of the land dictate that I legally owe this place $94000 at this moment, because that's the number they chose to write on the bill they sent my insurance company as an "out of network" provider. I am not aware of any laws preventing them from writing 94m instead, so I can be glad they did not. If I get hit by a bus and all my heirs also get hit by a bus, that surgery center gets the 94k from my estate.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Horace

                        There is no margin in letting it be, and as far as I'm aware, the laws of the land dictate that I legally owe this place $94000 at this moment, because that's the number they chose to write on the bill they sent my insurance company as an "out of network" provider. I am not aware of any laws preventing them from writing 94m instead, so I can be glad they did not. If I get hit by a bus and all my heirs also get hit by a bus, that surgery center gets the 94k from my estate.

                        JollyJ Offline
                        JollyJ Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        @Horace said in Pretty soon you're talking about real money:

                        There is no margin in letting it be, and as far as I'm aware, the laws of the land dictate that I legally owe this place $94000 at this moment, because that's the number they chose to write on the bill they sent my insurance company as an "out of network" provider. I am not aware of any laws preventing them from writing 94m instead, so I can be glad they did not. If I get hit by a bus and all my heirs also get hit by a bus, that surgery center gets the 94k from my estate.

                        Didn't you have to have this surgery pre-approved?

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          That was the verbal story I was given at the time. Along with a warning from the surgery center Administrator to call her if I had any trouble from my insurance company. Which sank my heart a bit. I worried that she knew she was going to be trying something they might not like. Then there was the wording on the estimate, the first line of which warns that the bill sent to the insurance company will be large but that I shouldn't worry because these things get negotiated down. But behold, no negotiation, just retail, right there on my insurance company's website that collates all my current medical bills. And when I called the insurance company, they are uninterested in doing anything about it. They just want me to call the surgery center. And I can't get in touch with the surgery center Admin because she's on vacation this week.

                          It's a little odd that the surgery center is "out of network" since they work exclusively with surgeons who are "in network" for my insurance. I think they intentionally are "out of network" so they can send these sorts of bills and leave the patient with the choice of paying the cash immediately to make it go away, or letting them suffer under the massive debt.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #35

                            You're either pre-approved, or you aren't. If you were pre-approved, the surgery center screwed up the filing. It needs to be refiled. If you were lied to, and you weren't told you were not pre-approved...Might be time to get very serious

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by Horace
                              #36

                              I don't know from pre-approved. The estimate I was given before the surgery indicated uncertainty but a specific number was quoted that I would be expected to pay within 15 days of receiving the statement. Which I have never received, for some reason. There was a number to call, on this estimate. I called it and a recording told me to email them because they're not in the office because COVID. The email address is "collections@<blah>.com". Collections, of all things. I guess they want you to know they're not messing around. I emailed them last night and received this in response this morning:

                              Good Morning,

                              Because we are out of network, as a courtesy to the Provider and the patient we are accepting the carrier payment, you are only responsible for $1,444.23, as per the agreement this needed to be paid 15 days after the procedure.

                              Kindly call me to make your payment.

                              So this person doubles down on the "out of network" aspect. Of which I was never apprised prior to surgery, and which would seem to preclude any pre-approval from my insurance company.

                              Note also that the email says I needed to pay within 15 days of the procedure, while the written estimate indicated 15 days from when I receive the statement. Which I have never received.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • RainmanR Offline
                                RainmanR Offline
                                Rainman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #37

                                So, good news, right?

                                I wonder if they ignore the dates of process, realizing this only becomes an issue if it ends up in court, in which case a good lawyer would use their lack of adhering to specified timeframes to your advantage.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • AxtremusA Offline
                                  AxtremusA Offline
                                  Axtremus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #38

                                  @Horace Just a thought, consider sharing your medical bills with https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/16/585549568/share-your-medical-bill-with-us

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • X Offline
                                    X Offline
                                    xenon
                                    wrote on last edited by xenon
                                    #39

                                    The US has a weird system.

                                    The insurers are the customer, patients just a necessary input.

                                    My understanding is that often the physicians and practitioners have no idea what the procedures they do ending up costing. There’s no mechanism in the system to understand the cost / benefit of treatment A vs treatment B.

                                    As in treatment A maybe be 10x more expensive than treatment B, but only slightly more effective in trials. (Or even essentially the same level of effectiveness)

                                    The system is set up that way though. An analogy I heard on an econtalk podcast was that it’s like going to dinner and splitting the bill. You know everyone else might order steak, so you order surf and turf too. Everyone does. We all split the bill and insurance pays. So everyone gets the absolute best that money will buy, at all times.

                                    There’s few market mechanisms in place to keep the cost down. The hospital often doesn’t even know its cost for procedures.

                                    It’s not a market system. It’s a system where we have unlimited private money going in to a system without cost controls.

                                    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #40

                                      That podcast was excellent. If depressing.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                        Doctor Phibes
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #41

                                        I've told the story before about my FIL having a back problem when he was visiting us, and the hospital recommended a scan. He asked the doctor the price, and was told 'about $1000', so he went ahead. They sent him a bill for over $10,000. We weren't at all sure the insurance would cover it since it was a pre-existing condition, thankfully they did.

                                        I'd probably get fired if I was so clueless about what we charge for services.

                                        I was only joking

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • 89th8 Offline
                                          89th8 Offline
                                          89th
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #42

                                          No kidding, @Doctor-Phibes !

                                          Not the same at all, but when my first daughter was born two years ago, she was 7 weeks early. I can tell you, maybe out of pure ignorance, but both during the labor as well as the 3 weeks in the NICU afterwards, not once did I think about the cost. I presumed our insurance covered it all. Luckily it did, but again...I didn’t think about it, nor would I understand how it works if someone told me.

                                          Later I found that the NICU stay was like $90,000 pre-insurance.

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