"A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 15:31 last edited by
How long were the lockdowns?
In New York State it lasted 8 weeks. I don’t think it was a policy failure here, given (1) the severity of the initial outbreak in NYC, and (2) how little we knew at the time.
In other states it probably was a failure. At least in hindsight.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 15:39 last edited by
I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 15:41 last edited by
I think I thought the collateral costs were staggering at the time. And we aren’t finished paying yet.
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I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:01 last edited by@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.
I’ll cop to the former, the transplant physicians were genuinely worried it would be a death sentence for us. Indeed for many it was and still is. I had a transplant friend die of Covid as recently as April 15th (some 2 days before I tested positive).
I don’t remember anyone here adopting the latter view.
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I think I thought the collateral costs were staggering at the time. And we aren’t finished paying yet.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:03 last edited by@Copper said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
I think I thought the collateral costs were staggering at the time. And we aren’t finished paying yet.
True but you thought the flu was worse. I don’t know how you thought that, but you did. And for someone who sincerely believed that, pretty much any public mitigation efforts would be overkill
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:21 last edited by
NO ONE KNEW ANYTHING other than the hellish conditions in Lombardy. I think some of the restrictions that continued went on too long, but again, we don't really know. From this article it would appear that masking was our most effective tool.
It's easy to look at it as someone you don't know would have died. Harder when it's your parent or spouse or child.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:32 last edited by
I drew in lines when they did the lockdown and when the phased removal began. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, even with hindsight.
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How long were the lockdowns?
In New York State it lasted 8 weeks. I don’t think it was a policy failure here, given (1) the severity of the initial outbreak in NYC, and (2) how little we knew at the time.
In other states it probably was a failure. At least in hindsight.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:43 last edited by@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
How long were the lockdowns?
In New York State it lasted 8 weeks. I don’t think it was a policy failure here, given (1) the severity of the initial outbreak in NYC, and (2) how little we knew at the time.
In other states it probably was a failure. At least in hindsight.
That’s disingenuous at best. NY entered Phase 1 of their reopening plan. 1 person per elevator and 25% building capacity with many nonessential businesses still shut down is hardly ending the lockdowns. The last COVID restrictions in NY were not lifted until summer of 2021….
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@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
How long were the lockdowns?
In New York State it lasted 8 weeks. I don’t think it was a policy failure here, given (1) the severity of the initial outbreak in NYC, and (2) how little we knew at the time.
In other states it probably was a failure. At least in hindsight.
That’s disingenuous at best. NY entered Phase 1 of their reopening plan. 1 person per elevator and 25% building capacity with many nonessential businesses still shut down is hardly ending the lockdowns. The last COVID restrictions in NY were not lifted until summer of 2021….
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:49 last edited by@LuFins-Dad which sort of begs the question: "What is a 'lockdown'?"
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 16:53 last edited by
Social distancing /= lockdown.
True it was a phased reopening. But by July even most cultural institutions were allowed to reopen. Schools too.
To the point of the thread, the interventions with large collateral costs really ended pretty soon.
Broadway closed the entire year, there’s some economic damage there.
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How long were the lockdowns?
In New York State it lasted 8 weeks. I don’t think it was a policy failure here, given (1) the severity of the initial outbreak in NYC, and (2) how little we knew at the time.
In other states it probably was a failure. At least in hindsight.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:08 last edited by@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
How long were the lockdowns?
There were three separate ones. My mother went into a nursing home right as the first one kicked in, although she was probably only partially aware of what was going on.
My recollection of the following couple of years was that the level of restriction seemed to vary significantly depending on the local conditions, so in late 2020 I had a friend in Wales who was at home 100% of the time, whereas my brother in Manchester, who admittedly works in an area designated as an essential service, was pretty much working as usual, and traveling around quite a bit.
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Social distancing /= lockdown.
True it was a phased reopening. But by July even most cultural institutions were allowed to reopen. Schools too.
To the point of the thread, the interventions with large collateral costs really ended pretty soon.
Broadway closed the entire year, there’s some economic damage there.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:15 last edited by@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
Broadway closed the entire year, there’s some economic damage there.
Schools were closed longer, iirc.Weingarten (president of American Federation of Teachers) lobbied to keep them closed, iirc.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:17 last edited by
Not statewide. Our district was only closed spring of 2020. The city stayed closed for 2020-2021 I believe.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:23 last edited by
We had a hybrid model that meant the kids started going back in September 2020 but with reduced class sizes and working partially from home.
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Not statewide. Our district was only closed spring of 2020. The city stayed closed for 2020-2021 I believe.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:30 last edited by@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
Not statewide. Our district was only closed spring of 2020. The city stayed closed for 2020-2021 I believe.
Yes, I seem to recall that N.Y.C. didn’t reopen until September, 2021 and even delayed then, but that’s on the city not on the state.
However, did your schools fully reopen for in-person learning in the fall of 2020? Or was it a hybrid model? Here we had the choice of 2 days in-school/3 days remote or you could choose a full-time remote. It was Luke’s senior year. He was essentially done and most of the important classes were disrupted by the disjointed schedule so we opted for remote, but I would still argue that a part time schedule is still a type of lockdown.
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@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.
I’ll cop to the former, the transplant physicians were genuinely worried it would be a death sentence for us. Indeed for many it was and still is. I had a transplant friend die of Covid as recently as April 15th (some 2 days before I tested positive).
I don’t remember anyone here adopting the latter view.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:30 last edited by@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.
I’ll cop to the former, the transplant physicians were genuinely worried it would be a death sentence for us. Indeed for many it was and still is. I had a transplant friend die of Covid as recently as April 15th (some 2 days before I tested positive).
Your fear of getting sick was understandable, but it wasn't just you.
I don’t remember anyone here adopting the latter view.
It was prevalent here.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:33 last edited by
I admit to getting sucked in.
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wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:44 last edited by Doctor Phibes 6 Jun 2023, 17:45
There was a huge amount of uncertainty. Managing a pandemic with 20/20 hindsight is real easy.
I remember in March/April 2020 leaving the mail in the sun-room to decontaminate for 24 hours. It seems ridiculous now. I got yelled at by a pedestrian when I cycled past them for being within 8 feet, then around the next corner I saw a bunch of older guys jogging and thinking they were crazy for getting so close.
Even now, things vary - we have the husband of a liver transplant survivor working here - he still never meets anyone in person and wears a mask at all times when he leaves his office. Ironically, his wife ended up giving him covid.
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There was a huge amount of uncertainty. Managing a pandemic with 20/20 hindsight is real easy.
I remember in March/April 2020 leaving the mail in the sun-room to decontaminate for 24 hours. It seems ridiculous now. I got yelled at by a pedestrian when I cycled past them for being within 8 feet, then around the next corner I saw a bunch of older guys jogging and thinking they were crazy for getting so close.
Even now, things vary - we have the husband of a liver transplant survivor working here - he still never meets anyone in person and wears a mask at all times when he leaves his office. Ironically, his wife ended up giving him covid.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 17:52 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes I get the panic… I was pulled in, too. Wiping down groceries with Clorox wipes in a decontamination room…
That doesn’t alleviate our public health experts for critical failures and our governments for allowing our rights to be infringed on because of those public health failures.
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@Doctor-Phibes I get the panic… I was pulled in, too. Wiping down groceries with Clorox wipes in a decontamination room…
That doesn’t alleviate our public health experts for critical failures and our governments for allowing our rights to be infringed on because of those public health failures.
wrote on 6 Jun 2023, 18:07 last edited by Doctor Phibes 6 Jun 2023, 18:07@LuFins-Dad said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:
@Doctor-Phibes I get the panic… I was pulled in, too. Wiping down groceries with Clorox wipes in a decontamination room…
That doesn’t alleviate our public health experts for critical failures and our governments for allowing our rights to be infringed on because of those public health failures.
Well, to be fair they were operating under a lot of uncertainty too. However. the initial post in this thread was about the UK , and I'd characterise the behaviour of that government as disgusting. Drinks parties at No. 10 while the rest of the country was forcibly being isolated. Contracts for safety equipment being awarded to friends and family of senior politicians without any tendering process despite them being incapable of delivering and having insufficient expertise. Senior government ministers driving hundreds of miles for 'child care' and 'to test out my eyesight'. I could go on.