The Ruling Class
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@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
The message isn't the troll, the accoutrements may be.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
The message isn't the troll, the accoutrements may be.
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
The message isn't the troll, the accoutrements may be.
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@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
The message isn't the troll, the accoutrements may be.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Horace said in The Ruling Class:
I was claiming that the bow tie was the troll trapping.
Sure. I thought maybe he was trying to emulate that other great thinker, Doctor Who. Or possibly that other bloke, the one you like.
TBH, I'm not sure The Epoch Times really does trolling. Of course, it's a little hard to tell.
The message isn't the troll, the accoutrements may be.
Yeah that fits. He’s a troll, he dresses as a troll, and he has some ideas that aren’t necessarily trollish. He is maximizing his own publicity, and you can’t do that without the clothing.
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@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
You're worried about who wrote the opinion piece and not about some transgendered professional actor mocking women everywhere?
Typical.
For me personally, what I'm saying is that he used the transbeer fiasco as an entryway into a whole lot of other arguments. But the problem is, he didn't do his research and he clearly doesn't have a clue how shit like this actually happens.
So his entire analysis is built on a classism house of cards that plays well to his base, but sure as shit doesn't educate.
Then educate. I'll listen...
Just as a caveat, look, I've presented work to marketing VPs whose marketing budgets are orders of magnitude larger than Anheuser-Busch's. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I've been in the damn meetings where stupid shit like this sometimes happens.
Alissa Gordon Heinerscheid doesn’t suck at her job because she’s detached from regular life. A LOT of marketing VPs are completely divorced from the experience you and I might call reality. And yet they don’t make decisions like these.
It’s because the good ones are unashamedly empathetic about who buys their stuff. Fundamentalist Christian potato farmer? Apple fanboi digital nomad? Doesn’t matter, they embrace whoever their audience is with open arms and try to build a stronger relationship with them.
Where Heinerscheid fucked up is where a lot of politicians fuck up. It’s not really about the influence they have or the bubble they’re in. Those are just inevitable consequences. She’s lost her empathy for the people who give her money. She started thinking her job was to define a culture, not champion it.
That would be my preferred way in for the broader conversation, too. We have an empathy problem, not a class problem. And it’s exacerbated by technology eroding the number of acquaintances we have that live outside of our own bubbles.
I would venture out and guess that it explains modern social epidemics, the new racism, basically everything.
But I freaking know it's how stupid ads get made. Every time.@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
You're worried about who wrote the opinion piece and not about some transgendered professional actor mocking women everywhere?
Typical.
For me personally, what I'm saying is that he used the transbeer fiasco as an entryway into a whole lot of other arguments. But the problem is, he didn't do his research and he clearly doesn't have a clue how shit like this actually happens.
So his entire analysis is built on a classism house of cards that plays well to his base, but sure as shit doesn't educate.
Then educate. I'll listen...
Just as a caveat, look, I've presented work to marketing VPs whose marketing budgets are orders of magnitude larger than Anheuser-Busch's. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I've been in the damn meetings where stupid shit like this sometimes happens.
Alissa Gordon Heinerscheid doesn’t suck at her job because she’s detached from regular life. A LOT of marketing VPs are completely divorced from the experience you and I might call reality. And yet they don’t make decisions like these.
It’s because the good ones are unashamedly empathetic about who buys their stuff. Fundamentalist Christian potato farmer? Apple fanboi digital nomad? Doesn’t matter, they embrace whoever their audience is with open arms and try to build a stronger relationship with them.
Where Heinerscheid fucked up is where a lot of politicians fuck up. It’s not really about the influence they have or the bubble they’re in. Those are just inevitable consequences. She’s lost her empathy for the people who give her money. She started thinking her job was to define a culture, not champion it.
That would be my preferred way in for the broader conversation, too. We have an empathy problem, not a class problem. And it’s exacerbated by technology eroding the number of acquaintances we have that live outside of our own bubbles.
I would venture out and guess that it explains modern social epidemics, the new racism, basically everything.
But I freaking know it's how stupid ads get made. Every time.But her underlying motive is not bad... She's trying to increase sales by cultivating a different segment of the market. Most Bud Lite drinkers are middle-aged and older guys, trying to watch their waistlines.
So if you want to appeal to a younger crowd, while still maintaining your base, seems like she could have picked a better face to front her campaign.
I'm just gob-smacked this didn't show up in focus group testing...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Jolly
I'm real sorry about your perpetual rage and everything, but be advised, Biden is not my president. -
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
You're worried about who wrote the opinion piece and not about some transgendered professional actor mocking women everywhere?
Typical.
For me personally, what I'm saying is that he used the transbeer fiasco as an entryway into a whole lot of other arguments. But the problem is, he didn't do his research and he clearly doesn't have a clue how shit like this actually happens.
So his entire analysis is built on a classism house of cards that plays well to his base, but sure as shit doesn't educate.
Then educate. I'll listen...
Just as a caveat, look, I've presented work to marketing VPs whose marketing budgets are orders of magnitude larger than Anheuser-Busch's. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I've been in the damn meetings where stupid shit like this sometimes happens.
Alissa Gordon Heinerscheid doesn’t suck at her job because she’s detached from regular life. A LOT of marketing VPs are completely divorced from the experience you and I might call reality. And yet they don’t make decisions like these.
It’s because the good ones are unashamedly empathetic about who buys their stuff. Fundamentalist Christian potato farmer? Apple fanboi digital nomad? Doesn’t matter, they embrace whoever their audience is with open arms and try to build a stronger relationship with them.
Where Heinerscheid fucked up is where a lot of politicians fuck up. It’s not really about the influence they have or the bubble they’re in. Those are just inevitable consequences. She’s lost her empathy for the people who give her money. She started thinking her job was to define a culture, not champion it.
That would be my preferred way in for the broader conversation, too. We have an empathy problem, not a class problem. And it’s exacerbated by technology eroding the number of acquaintances we have that live outside of our own bubbles.
I would venture out and guess that it explains modern social epidemics, the new racism, basically everything.
But I freaking know it's how stupid ads get made. Every time.But her underlying motive is not bad... She's trying to increase sales by cultivating a different segment of the market. Most Bud Lite drinkers are middle-aged and older guys, trying to watch their waistlines.
So if you want to appeal to a younger crowd, while still maintaining your base, seems like she could have picked a better face to front her campaign.
I'm just gob-smacked this didn't show up in focus group testing...
@Jolly said in The Ruling Class:
But her underlying motive is not bad... She's trying to increase sales by cultivating a different segment of the market. Most Bud Lite drinkers are middle-aged and older guys, trying to watch their waistlines.
Eh, depends. She could have tried to wokeify the brand, which wouldn't just be a demographic choice, but also a social justice choice that shows a lack of empathy for who their base is.
You know who did this really, really well? Carhartt. They've spread into the hipster market without alienating their former base too much.
So if you want to appeal to a younger crowd, while still maintaining your base, seems like she could have picked a better face to front her campaign.
I think she made just about the worst choice imaginable.
I'm just gob-smacked this didn't show up in focus group testing...
Me too. But then again, this stuff isn't tested in focus groups as much as it once was. Sometimes it's not at all, it's all top-down.
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You know, there's an awful lot of handwringing going on here.
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
If so, they get what they deserve. And they deserve Light Beer.
I know, I know, it sucks right now to be an Anheuser-Busch shareholder. But think for a moment just how much global misery those people have created. Payback!
Incidentally, apparently British beer is catching on to this trend:
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You know, there's an awful lot of handwringing going on here.
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
If so, they get what they deserve. And they deserve Light Beer.
I know, I know, it sucks right now to be an Anheuser-Busch shareholder. But think for a moment just how much global misery those people have created. Payback!
Incidentally, apparently British beer is catching on to this trend:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
You also don't buy a lot of stuff specifically because of the advertising.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
You also don't buy a lot of stuff specifically because of the advertising.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
She started thinking her job was to define a culture, not champion it.
Aqua, I quoted your key point, very perceptive and interesting.
Would you add "influence" somewhere in that sentence, like maybe first?
Really enjoy reading the perspectives in this thread.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
She started thinking her job was to define a culture, not champion it.
Aqua, I quoted your key point, very perceptive and interesting.
Would you add "influence" somewhere in that sentence, like maybe first?
Really enjoy reading the perspectives in this thread.
@Rainman said in The Ruling Class:
Would you add "influence" somewhere in that sentence, like maybe first?
Yeah, I think so. But with the ad stuff, sometimes woke politics is the reason behind it, and sometimes it's ego.
Woke folks definitely try to influence the culture around them. They do that because they think they know better. Because they don't want to empathize with others who are outside their own bubbles. Why do that when those people over there are so obviously wrong about everything?
Not all marketing morons are woke, though. Some of them either don't know or forget that they're downstream to culture, not upstream. They're given crazy-ridiculous budgets in a professional environment that rewards ego, and so a lot of them actually believe that they can shape culture.
They can't, though. They can only get as close as the stand-up comedian: expressing something everyone already relates to, but no one has yet verbalized. That's as far as it can go. But it's easy to confuse that with, "look at this movement we've created!" Because ego, and lack of empathy.
Barnes & Noble's death spiral and subsequent recovery is a perfect example of what happens when you let something other than empathy drive your marketing, learn your lesson, and then start to bring it back.
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@Rainman said in The Ruling Class:
Would you add "influence" somewhere in that sentence, like maybe first?
Yeah, I think so. But with the ad stuff, sometimes woke politics is the reason behind it, and sometimes it's ego.
Woke folks definitely try to influence the culture around them. They do that because they think they know better. Because they don't want to empathize with others who are outside their own bubbles. Why do that when those people over there are so obviously wrong about everything?
Not all marketing morons are woke, though. Some of them either don't know or forget that they're downstream to culture, not upstream. They're given crazy-ridiculous budgets in a professional environment that rewards ego, and so a lot of them actually believe that they can shape culture.
They can't, though. They can only get as close as the stand-up comedian: expressing something everyone already relates to, but no one has yet verbalized. That's as far as it can go. But it's easy to confuse that with, "look at this movement we've created!" Because ego, and lack of empathy.
Barnes & Noble's death spiral and subsequent recovery is a perfect example of what happens when you let something other than empathy drive your marketing, learn your lesson, and then start to bring it back.
In the long run, no one, woke or otherwise, can fool the market.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Because if that’s the case then Sam Addams sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
I was only joking
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Because if that’s the case then Sam Addams sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
Sam Addams (sic) sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
Bloody insurrectionist!
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
Sam Addams (sic) sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
Bloody insurrectionist!
@George-K said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
Sam Addams (sic) sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
Bloody insurrectionist!
No, I don't drink Sam Addams, I drink Night Shift Santilli IPA. I like it better. Sam do a lot of advertising, and I drink a different beer.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Because if that’s the case then Sam Addams sure wasted a lot of advertising money to persuade me to drink something they don’t actually make.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Still a swing and a miss. Sometimes it's like that but not really, not anymore.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Still a swing and a miss. Sometimes it's like that but not really, not anymore.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Still a swing and a miss. Sometimes it's like that but not really, not anymore.
OK, smart guy. Why do I drink the beer I drink?
Bearing in mind that I've tried a lot of beer.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Still a swing and a miss. Sometimes it's like that but not really, not anymore.
OK, smart guy. Why do I drink the beer I drink?
Bearing in mind that I've tried a lot of beer.
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ruling Class:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ruling Class:
It's a big marketing fail, clearly, but do people really buy their beer because of the advertising?
You're kidding me, right? You do, too.
No, I really don’t buy beer based on the advertising. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a commercial for the beer I get. I just tried it one day and really liked it.
Bro. Just, c'mon.
- "Advertising" ≠ "commercials"
- This isn't They Live. You don't just see a commercial and then feel this magic compulsion to go out and buy crappy beer, that's not how it works.
Ok, so I drink the beer I drink because of a societal vibe including advertising that surrounds me and tells me that picking a locally brewed IPA would somehow fit with my self image and also it would help me define myself in a way that only somebody working an marketing would fully comprehend?
Still a swing and a miss. Sometimes it's like that but not really, not anymore.
OK, smart guy. Why do I drink the beer I drink?
Bearing in mind that I've tried a lot of beer.
It's not mysterious, it's just so basic most people take it for granted.
Basically you do because you like to.
And you tried the stuff you tried because you wanted to. And you wanted to for probably a handful of reasons, one of them being that you felt comfortable doing so. -
That guy in the picture that @Doctor-Phibes submitted looks like Bruce Willis!!
