Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science
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@George-K Wise words as usual!
@Rainman Wearing a mask is both to protect yourself but even more to protect others. As long as I have been alive, it has been very common to wear a mask whenever you feel sick.
i think it is because there is much more a "us" feeling rather than an "I" feeling. If definitely relates to culture, and people will think of how their actions will effect others around them.
In a way, it is putting the "good of society" above the"good of the individual"
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@Catseye3 said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
That's a different deal, amirite?
All those laws came about through the careful consideration of people we elected to legislate.
The mask requirement/recommendation came about as part of an emergency order based on emerging science. It has a different feel. And before the science had a chance to gel it became polarized.
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@Copper said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
Pick the number of acceptable deaths.
Above the number for your county, city or state and you wear the mask.
Below the number, you don't.
Mix in GDP if that makes sense.
If the number of acceptable deaths is zero, then we will all wear masks forever. At the moment I'm not for or against that, I'm just saying that we might as well face the facts.
I have a couple masks and wear one when it is recommended.
And have we overreacted? That depends on the number of acceptable deaths.
The thing is, we can't accurately control the number of deaths. We can't say 'OK, we're going to have 27,500 deaths and still make 87% of our normal GDP'. That isn't how this works. We're dancing with chaos, and trying to avoid carnage.
All we can do is make every reasonable effort to minimise the damage done, both on a human and a financial basis.
Wearing a mask where social distancing isn't possible isn't such a big deal.
This isn't something we can accurately control. We just have to do the best we can.
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@Rainman said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
@Axtremus said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
I visited Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, years before COVID-19. Even then it was quite common to see people there wore masks. ...
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I've seen it in airports over the years, occasionally an Asian person wearing a mask.
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Oh yeah, regarding the above. I wonder if that cultural "saving face" somehow goes with Asian cultures being more receptive to wearing a mask, or is it the collective spirit in the culture?Very specifically, I talked only about Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. Not āAsiaā or āAsianā in general. Pre-COVID-19, I donāt get the impression that mainland Chinese wear masks as much as, say the Hong Kong Chinese, and even the Hong Kong Chinese do not wear masks as much as, say, the Taiwanese. They are all āChinese,ā yet the regional differences are significant. I also did not see mask wearing much in Indochina and South East Asia pre-COVID-19. I will let xenon comment on mask wearing in South Asia if he wishes; I think heās more familiar with that region.
As for the Asians one sees in various airports, who knows where they come from. As far as I can tell, an Asian from North America is just as unlikely to wear a mask as just about any ethnic group from North America.
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@Jolly said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
I also think it's very sad that wearing a mask has become politicised to the extent that it has.
In another time I'm sure it would seem like plain common sense, but apparently not in this time.
We're Americans. No matter how civilized we become, the national ethos is you're-not-gonna-tell-me-what-to-do-by-God rebels.
You're teenagers, in other words.
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The other thing to remember is it's not just deaths. It appears that lots of survivors are going to have long term health issues as a result of Covid.
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@Axtremus said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
I visited Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, years before COVID-19. Even then it was quite common to see people there wore masks. The people there have somehow developed the social norm of wearing masks whenever they were sick with the common flu. I donāt think there was a government mandate for them to wear mask, but there was enough public health education and awareness that the people there generally accept that wearing a mask when one is sick with an illness that can infect others through coughs and sneezes is the right thing to do. This seems rather logical and need not be politicized as we have done here.
Itās Ax and Mik agree day again. I wonder if itās the same day each year or like a floating holiday
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@Axtremus
"Very specifically, I talked only about Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. Not āAsiaā or āAsianā in general."Hey Ax 'ol buddy. Serious question from me.
Is it politically incorrect, or perhaps offensive, for me to use the word "Asian" without being more specific? It seemed maybe you were a bit put off by the way I stated my question? No offense meant by me if so. -
@Rainman said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
@Axtremus
"Very specifically, I talked only about Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. Not āAsiaā or āAsianā in general."Hey Ax 'ol buddy. Serious question from me.
Is it politically incorrect, or perhaps offensive, for me to use the word "Asian" without being more specific? It seemed maybe you were a bit put off by the way I stated my question? No offense meant by me if so.Not āpolitically incorrectā and not āoffensive,ā just intellectually sloppy in this case. I described certain regional norm, and you generalized it well beyond the specific regions where the described norm is evident. My follow up post clarified that your generalization has no basis in fact.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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As a matter of common usage, it seems to me āorientalā typically refers to East Asian; I donāt think I have ever heard the word used to refer to, say, a person from the India subcontinent or from the part of Russia thatās technically in north Asia.
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@Axtremus said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
As a matter of common usage, it seems to me āorientalā typically refers to East Asian; I donāt think I have ever heard the word used to refer to, say, a person from the India subcontinent or from the part of Russia thatās technically in north Asia.
That makes sense. So, in today's parlance, can I say "Asian" in reference to a person from India instead of "Indian?" Would that be a faux-pas? I believe in Britain "Asian" commonly refers to people from Pakistan, etc. It's all so confusing.
I'm afraid of offending someone, you know.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
@Axtremus said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
As a matter of common usage, it seems to me āorientalā typically refers to East Asian; I donāt think I have ever heard the word used to refer to, say, a person from the India subcontinent or from the part of Russia thatās technically in north Asia.
That makes sense. So, in today's parlance, can I say "Asian" in reference to a person from India instead of "Indian?" Would that be a faux-pas? I believe in Britain "Asian" commonly refers to people from Pakistan, etc. It's all so confusing.
I'm afraid of offending someone, you know.
Itās like saying ābaby grandā in piano forum, different people have different opinions on what that term can mean. I try to be specific where possible (e.g., ā6 ft. grandā or ā185cm grandā as opposed to ābaby grandā). So too with peopleās ethnicity, nationality, or geographic origins (e.g., āa Singaporeanā as opposed to āan Asianā).
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@George-K said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
@Axtremus said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
As a matter of common usage, it seems to me āorientalā typically refers to East Asian; I donāt think I have ever heard the word used to refer to, say, a person from the India subcontinent or from the part of Russia thatās technically in north Asia.
That makes sense. So, in today's parlance, can I say "Asian" in reference to a person from India instead of "Indian?" Would that be a faux-pas? I believe in Britain "Asian" commonly refers to people from Pakistan, etc. It's all so confusing.
I'm afraid of offending someone, you know.
In the UK, Asian typically means either India or Pakistan - there are actually more people of Indian origin than of Pakistani in the UK, but it can mean anybody from the Indian subcontinent and surrounding area, e.g. Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan...
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@George-K said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
Yesterday, Mrs. George asked me when it became improper to say "Oriental." When and why was that term replaced by "Asian?" Is "Oriental" not accurate, or is it offensive in some way?
I have never really heard that term before. But I do remember visiting the Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago. If I remember, it is mainly about Egyptian artifacts, etc.
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@George-K said in Tucker: Masks and social distancing have no basis in science:
Yesterday, Mrs. George asked me when it became improper to say "Oriental." When and why was that term replaced by "Asian?" Is "Oriental" not accurate, or is it offensive in some way?
It is accurate.
It is in no way offensive.
But it was outlawed for no reason I can figure out maybe 15 years ago.
It was replaced with Asian, which is obviously inaccurate. Asia goes all the way over to Turkey but Asian is used to describe those from Eastern Asia.
I say bring back Oriental. I don't think there was ever any disrespect associated with it.
