The Other Side
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@Jolly said in The Other Side:
Ok...So you think somebody should serve three years in prison for a non-violent act?
Were these sentences mandatory or decided by the judges?
Again, in no way could these people think what they were doing was okay and allowed. They weren't innocent sightseers.
I dont really know if they should have gotten three years or not, but a wide variety of judges of both political sides seem to think so. This is not just one isolated judge making one isolated decision.
(BTW, I am sure a lot of drug posessers would love to have only received a three year sentence for their non violent crime.)
@taiwan_girl said in The Other Side:
@Jolly said in The Other Side:
Ok...So you think somebody should serve three years in prison for a non-violent act?
Were these sentences mandatory or decided by the judges?
Again, in no way could these people think what they were doing was okay and allowed. They weren't innocent sightseers.
I dont really know if they should have gotten three years or not, but a wide variety of judges of both political sides seem to think so. This is not just one isolated judge making one isolated decision.
(BTW, I am sure a lot of drug posessers would love to have only received a three year sentence for their non violent crime.)
A lot of the dopers don't serve more than a day in jail. Maybe only hours. And the only way I know of that you are going to wind up in Federal court is for trafficking and distribution of drugs across a U.S. border or a state line.
Therefore, that argument is a fallacy.
Next...Federal sentencing has guidelines. Usually outlining the maximum penalty that can be given a convicted person. Here's one we were talking about earlier:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505
Five years, max. If Domestic Terrorism, eight years max. After that, what prison will you serve your sentence in? Lot of difference in where Martha Stewart served and a Supermax.
Justice is getting ready to arrest approximately another 1000 people. Wonder how many will be held in solitary, in a Supermax facility? Caldwell was. Almost two months.
If you are not familiar with a Supermax, do a little reading. I think you'll find it both interesting and create a desire not to be thrown into one.
At the start of this thread, we talked about how Lt. Commander (yes, he's a disabled vet) Caldwell thinks Jan 6 protesters (or rioters, if you prefer, although it's really hard to pin the term rioter on a guy and his wife who stroll through an open door) are being overcharged and over-sentenced. Compared to the Antifa riots in Washington, and the riots in Portland and BLM riots all over the country, does Caldwell have a point?
Secondly, how many of the rioters in Washington, Portland, etc., ever saw the inside of a Supermax? Try 0.
Lastly, speaking of Mr. Caldwell's treatment, I don't have a doubt about what was done to him. I don't think any of you have a clue how nasty things can get in a penitentiary if the guards choose to make it nasty.
Had a friend who was a corrections officer on The Farm. An HIV positive inmate threw a handful of feces in his face. He wiped it off as best he could, then headed to the showers to clean up, put on a fresh uniform and then report to medical for mandatory screening and to start AZT for exposure.
A couple of months later, he checked that inmate out for a work detail. They got on the elevator and he then keyed the elevator off between floors. He took a Maglite and he beat that shackled inmate in the ribs and kidneys until the guy was screaming on the floor. Then , he turned the elevator back on and put the guy back in his cell.
Everybody knew what happened. The warden knew. They wanted the inmates to know. The official story was that the elevator wasn't working and the shackled inmate fell down the stairs.
And like Jon says, prove something happened. You won't. In Mr. Caldwell's case, if something happened, you won't either.
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Personally, I think there is a real danger that these guys that are worse than selfie loving doofuses but not as bad as full scale insurrectionists could be radicalized by overly harsh treatment, conditions, and sentences.
You are legitimizing their concerns and mistrust of the government and in a few years, I think you will see actual domestic terrorists…
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@LuFins-Dad said in The Other Side:
You are legitimizing their concerns and mistrust of the government and in a few years, I think you will see actual domestic terrorists…
Bingo!
As I've said before, the fastest way to real violence is when people believe their Justice system is rigged or when their elections are fraudulent.
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@jon-nyc Don’t get me wrong, severe lines were crossed and I don’t disagree with appropriate punishments ranging from fines for everybody that crossed the threshold to several years for those that assaulted police, and lots of in between, but if they have been unnecessarily put in solitary confinement for extended periods of time and been abused in other ways, that will have repercussions…
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@jon-nyc Don’t get me wrong, severe lines were crossed and I don’t disagree with appropriate punishments ranging from fines for everybody that crossed the threshold to several years for those that assaulted police, and lots of in between, but if they have been unnecessarily put in solitary confinement for extended periods of time and been abused in other ways, that will have repercussions…
Something like 20% of prisoners experience solitary confinement at some point in their incarceration. In federal prisons, data from 2022 showed something like 6-7% were placed in solitary at some point during any particular month. It clearly seems overused. I doubt the Jan 6 crew got any special treatment here. Certainly not systematically.
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Don't think so. A Supermax cell has no windows. It's not very big and you only get out one hour per day for exercise...If they let you.
A lot of folks have trouble living by themselves with no freedom.
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Don't think so. A Supermax cell has no windows. It's not very big and you only get out one hour per day for exercise...If they let you.
A lot of folks have trouble living by themselves with no freedom.
@Jolly said in The Other Side:
A lot of folks have trouble living by themselves with no freedom.
Maybe don't break into federal government buildings and disrupt a presidential vote, then.
(And no I don't think prisoner abuses are justified if that needs repeating.)
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@Jolly said in The Other Side:
A lot of folks have trouble living by themselves with no freedom.
Maybe don't break into federal government buildings and disrupt a presidential vote, then.
(And no I don't think prisoner abuses are justified if that needs repeating.)
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Other Side:
@Jolly said in The Other Side:
A lot of folks have trouble living by themselves with no freedom.
Maybe don't break into federal government buildings and disrupt a presidential vote, then.
(And no I don't think prisoner abuses are justified if that needs repeating.)
Does a nonviolent crime deserve solitary confinement?
Do you think you would do ok in a concrete 9x7 room for two months?
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Hey Jolly,
Can they request books in solitary, like "Jailbreak for Dummies?"
Do they get cable?
Decent food, room service?
I'm sure solitary sux big time after a few days.@Rainman said in The Other Side:
Hey Jolly,
Can they request books in solitary, like "Jailbreak for Dummies?"
Do they get cable?
Decent food, room service?
I'm sure solitary sux big time after a few days.They can request books. That doesn't mean they get them.
Sorry, no tv. No radio.
Decent food? You know, I've ate a lot of prison food. Some of it's pretty good. Some of it is very good. Some is very bad. Depends on the prison and even what section of the prison you are in. I've seen lunch consist of a lettuce wrap ( a piece of bologna in a piece of lettuce) with a cookie and a glass of tea, and I've seen lunch consist of white beans with smoked bologna served over rice with cornbread and peach cobbler for dessert. The first was at Jefferson Parish, the latter at Camp J, Angola.
Room service? Uh, no.
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A little bit about Supermax prison...
https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/25/us/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-supermax-prison/index.html
