Tyre Nichols police beating/murder
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@Horace said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
A few things about cops...
Cops are cops because they like the action that comes with the job. And the most action is after the sun goes down. Conversely, as the guys get older and have families, they'd rather work days. So the guys at night are usually the youngest and the least trained.
Once the adrenaline gets up, people do some weird things. Like beating the crap out of somebody after they've already had enough. Our ED had its own jail cell...Oh, the things I've seen...Once saw them shoot a guy in front of the hospital. Guy was dead before he hit the ground, shot so many times it blew the back of his yellow polo shirt into tatters. On the ground, his arm twitched towards his back pocket (life ain't the movies, people don't die at the snap of a finger), and the cops shot him so many more times it moved the body.
Shucks, my wife's first cousin was U.S. Marshal of The Year and ran his own fugitive unit. He was chasing a guy that ran into an apartment building and slammed the door before he could get to it. Glen went all Stallone and kicked the door in...Promptly breaking his leg. And then the rest of his team ran over him in the doorway.
Crazy things happen out there...
@Jolly said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Horace said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
A few things about cops...
Cops are cops because they like the action that comes with the job. And the most action is after the sun goes down.
My psychologist youtuber calls these people "sensation seekers". As social scientists go, some psychologists actually study real things with real science, and come to real understandings of real human characteristics. H/t Jordan Peterson. Or, in this case, Todd Grande.
Ideologically captured psychologists are, as always, notwithstanding.
Link to video -
@LuFins-Dad had a good point about the economics being a major reason, but there is also a big cultural factor I think also. There are poor people all over the world, and in many (not all) there is not the level of violence. And I am to speaking of just police violence, but also violence against each other.
Heck, I grew up poor (no running water (at first) in the house, bathroom out in the back, etc) but I don't remember violence being a part of life.
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.
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@LuFins-Dad had a good point about the economics being a major reason, but there is also a big cultural factor I think also. There are poor people all over the world, and in many (not all) there is not the level of violence. And I am to speaking of just police violence, but also violence against each other.
Heck, I grew up poor (no running water (at first) in the house, bathroom out in the back, etc) but I don't remember violence being a part of life.
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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It’s been this way for urban blacks since at least the 40s. It’s not new, but it has worsened with the glorification of gang life since the 70s.
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
It’s been this way for urban blacks since at least the 40s. It’s not new, but it has worsened with the glorification of gang life since the 70s.
Exactly right. I’m not saying rappers but…well, yes. Rap music to a large extent.
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I think rap is a symptom and not the problem.
It’s kind of amazing that art didn’t completely die in a ruthless environment like that.
I feel so bad for the kids growing up in that situation - they really don’t have much of a chance and need a lot of help from the outside. A lot of help. And not just helicoptering in loads of money.
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@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Elbows up!
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As soon as the statistics reveal a correlation with skin color, the science stops and the narrative begins. There is no way to study culture disentangled from skin color, when the social sciences and faux intellectuals in the CRT movement only think until a correlation with skin color is revealed, and then immediately stop thinking, as the narrative takes it from there.
but intelligent black people do regularly discuss the culture issues. Glenn Loury, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, and lots of lesser known people with black skin, will be able to discuss this stuff rationally. No white person can, as they are defined by the narrative as perpetually and inescapably ignorant. The white people in control of the black voices who are heard, are some combination of True Believers and social climbers. (One correlates with the other, and are hopelessly entangled anyway. Humans are systematically, predictably, and blindly irrational, in service of the advancement of their status.)
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@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
@Renauda said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Indeed. Just read Manchild in the Promised Land. Violence was simply expected and if you didn’t fight you weren’t a man.
"You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell
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No fathers in a stable family, son's never knowing their father. Maybe that's too obvious?
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Similar to the god-shaped hole in the lives of those who sneer at religion, you need to worry about what rushes in to fill the gap of the father-shaped hole in those who grow up without one. I saw one stat that in an inner city, 25% of the adult males a kid interacts with, have been to prison.
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One of the saddest stories was from my life-long Chicagoan friend.
He volunteered in a rough neighborhood to be a Bug Brother.
Meets this bright young kid. Probably 10. Eager to please type personality.
The kid told my friend that when he grows up, he’s gonna kill a cop so the other cops will respect him enough to let him join.
He truly believed that and thought he was saying a good thing.
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@Renauda said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Indeed. Just read Manchild in the Promised Land. Violence was simply expected and if you didn’t fight you weren’t a man.
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Renauda said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Indeed. Just read Manchild in the Promised Land. Violence was simply expected and if you didn’t fight you weren’t a man.
That makes me think what one of greatest jazz clarinetists and band leader/musician, the late Artie Shaw, said about being a teen and making choices on the mean streets during the 1920s:
https://www.arts.gov/sites/default/files/jazz-moments/XM-082.mp3
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Heard a couple of black cops interviewed on the radio.
Their take?
Cops are taught to stay one step ahead on the aggression curve, trying to negate the threat. They are also people, who get amped up by high speed chase, foot chases and wrestling with a suspect.
Both cops agreed that you are taught to never, ever, never kick or strike a person in the head. Actually, they agreed you shouldn't kick a suspect. Blows with a baton or ASP are ok to use on a fighting suspect, but strikes should be confined to muscles, the more muscular the area, the better.
Both thought some of the post arrest banter was pure stupid.
Something else was brought out...If these cops normally worked this shift together, it leads to a group mentality of us against the world, on steroids. To combat this, you need good shift supervision and an occasional rotation of shift members.
So...
- Adrenaline rush.
- Bad training or bad adherence to training.
- Bad group mentality
Both cops stated this was not a response based on race.
