Tyre Nichols police beating/murder
-
@Jolly said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@LuFins-Dad said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
The question to ask is who has the prevalent culture of violence.
Not at all. This isn’t about race. It’s about class and it’s about power.
Nah, Mik was right.
Young blacks (unless they are middle class and above)THE POORare raised in a very violent culture. That can hang with them for the rest of their life.Jolly accidentally came close to getting it right.
Except possibly for 1-2 of you, I don't think most of you really get or understand what it means to grow up dirt poor. I think maybe Jolly grew up a little poorer, but it was a different type of poor. Rural poor is very different from Urban poor.
I've seen my brother have the shit kicked out of him by 3 cops. As bad as this guy, possibly worse, though he obviously didn't die. They used the clubs on him after he was handcuffed. I watched my aunt pick up my cousin's teeth that were knocked out during one of his arrests. His nose was broken and he had a concussion as well. I've seen two other cousins get beat down by the cops, but their cases weren't as egregious as the other cousin's and my brother's. The cops in our town were white. Obviously, my brother was white (cousin, too). Race had absoluely nothing to do with it. It had everything to do with it being the fvcking Prentices again... In all fairness, my cousin did throw a punch. My brother didn't. He had just taken them for a merry chase three different times. Why did he run? Because he knew he would catch a beating even if he gave himself up willingly... It's just the way it was. The hell of the thing about it? Most of the times my brother, cousins and their friends had problems with the police, they hadn't been involved with whatever the police came calling about. Don't get me wrong, they pulled plenty of crap, but the cops just started assuming that it was the fvcking Prentices anytime anything happened. That kind of crap happens enough and eventually, they do start becoming violent. My Dad was able to pull my brother out of the cycle, and I was far enough removed in age from them and too good at school to get clumped in.
So here's my overall point. Young men of any class can and will get in trouble (just look at @Mik ), but it's generally going to be poorer kids that are going to get in deeper and more dangerous trouble, and more often. They are going to be more likely to get into drugs, they are more likely to get into alcohol. They also have a tendency to glorify and revel in violence a little more. They're angry. They're trapped. They do have more to fear from a traffic stop. Sometimes deservedly so, a lot of times not. The police have a tendency on focusing on the poor more, because that's where the problems occur most often. It becomes a cycle that gets just a little worse each time.
We heard about this case because the kid died, but I would bet quite a lot that similar incidents happened hundreds, hell thousands of times that very weekend across the country. Black kids got beat, white kids got beat, Hispanics, Asians... The most common thread I bet would be that they were poor.
I'm not having an easy time explaining my thoughts and experiences and turning them into a coherent argument. I'm trying to write this at work and there have been countless interruptions and disruptions, and I'm not very good at putting my thoughts onto a screen anyway. I'm just trying to say that what often gets blamed on race is normally a result of economics. It just happens that a much larger percentage of blacks are poor, and their "poor culture" has become more representational. However, to them, the biggest glaring difference they see in the disparity of treatment is skin color and they assume that's the reason. They don't look at the poor white people that are going through the same struggles. This (by the way) creates animosity in the poor white community, whose same struggles don't get the attention and offers of assistance that the black community does. So their anger starts actually developing a racial element and the next thing you know you have genuine racial strife.
This also speaks back to something that Jon had posted a few days about Rural Anger. I think the author of that article missed the boat. It's not rural, it's class. It's the poor, whether urban or rural, that's driving a lot of this anger. Unfortunately, much of it is misplaced, but it's very real.
@LuFins-Dad LF'sD, that had to be a difficult thing to write, and you did it well. Thank you. I think you're right, and it's the broader view, which requires removing race as the primary factor.
-
@Jolly said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@LuFins-Dad said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
The question to ask is who has the prevalent culture of violence.
Not at all. This isn’t about race. It’s about class and it’s about power.
Nah, Mik was right.
Young blacks (unless they are middle class and above)THE POORare raised in a very violent culture. That can hang with them for the rest of their life.Jolly accidentally came close to getting it right.
Except possibly for 1-2 of you, I don't think most of you really get or understand what it means to grow up dirt poor. I think maybe Jolly grew up a little poorer, but it was a different type of poor. Rural poor is very different from Urban poor.
I've seen my brother have the shit kicked out of him by 3 cops. As bad as this guy, possibly worse, though he obviously didn't die. They used the clubs on him after he was handcuffed. I watched my aunt pick up my cousin's teeth that were knocked out during one of his arrests. His nose was broken and he had a concussion as well. I've seen two other cousins get beat down by the cops, but their cases weren't as egregious as the other cousin's and my brother's. The cops in our town were white. Obviously, my brother was white (cousin, too). Race had absoluely nothing to do with it. It had everything to do with it being the fvcking Prentices again... In all fairness, my cousin did throw a punch. My brother didn't. He had just taken them for a merry chase three different times. Why did he run? Because he knew he would catch a beating even if he gave himself up willingly... It's just the way it was. The hell of the thing about it? Most of the times my brother, cousins and their friends had problems with the police, they hadn't been involved with whatever the police came calling about. Don't get me wrong, they pulled plenty of crap, but the cops just started assuming that it was the fvcking Prentices anytime anything happened. That kind of crap happens enough and eventually, they do start becoming violent. My Dad was able to pull my brother out of the cycle, and I was far enough removed in age from them and too good at school to get clumped in.
So here's my overall point. Young men of any class can and will get in trouble (just look at @Mik ), but it's generally going to be poorer kids that are going to get in deeper and more dangerous trouble, and more often. They are going to be more likely to get into drugs, they are more likely to get into alcohol. They also have a tendency to glorify and revel in violence a little more. They're angry. They're trapped. They do have more to fear from a traffic stop. Sometimes deservedly so, a lot of times not. The police have a tendency on focusing on the poor more, because that's where the problems occur most often. It becomes a cycle that gets just a little worse each time.
We heard about this case because the kid died, but I would bet quite a lot that similar incidents happened hundreds, hell thousands of times that very weekend across the country. Black kids got beat, white kids got beat, Hispanics, Asians... The most common thread I bet would be that they were poor.
I'm not having an easy time explaining my thoughts and experiences and turning them into a coherent argument. I'm trying to write this at work and there have been countless interruptions and disruptions, and I'm not very good at putting my thoughts onto a screen anyway. I'm just trying to say that what often gets blamed on race is normally a result of economics. It just happens that a much larger percentage of blacks are poor, and their "poor culture" has become more representational. However, to them, the biggest glaring difference they see in the disparity of treatment is skin color and they assume that's the reason. They don't look at the poor white people that are going through the same struggles. This (by the way) creates animosity in the poor white community, whose same struggles don't get the attention and offers of assistance that the black community does. So their anger starts actually developing a racial element and the next thing you know you have genuine racial strife.
This also speaks back to something that Jon had posted a few days about Rural Anger. I think the author of that article missed the boat. It's not rural, it's class. It's the poor, whether urban or rural, that's driving a lot of this anger. Unfortunately, much of it is misplaced, but it's very real.
@LuFins-Dad said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Jolly said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@LuFins-Dad said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
The question to ask is who has the prevalent culture of violence.
Not at all. This isn’t about race. It’s about class and it’s about power.
Nah, Mik was right.
Young blacks (unless they are middle class and above)THE POORare raised in a very violent culture. That can hang with them for the rest of their life.Jolly accidentally came close to getting it right.
Except possibly for 1-2 of you, I don't think most of you really get or understand what it means to grow up dirt poor. I think maybe Jolly grew up a little poorer, but it was a different type of poor. Rural poor is very different from Urban poor.
I've seen my brother have the shit kicked out of him by 3 cops. As bad as this guy, possibly worse, though he obviously didn't die. They used the clubs on him after he was handcuffed. I watched my aunt pick up my cousin's teeth that were knocked out during one of his arrests. His nose was broken and he had a concussion as well. I've seen two other cousins get beat down by the cops, but their cases weren't as egregious as the other cousin's and my brother's. The cops in our town were white. Obviously, my brother was white (cousin, too). Race had absoluely nothing to do with it. It had everything to do with it being the fvcking Prentices again... In all fairness, my cousin did throw a punch. My brother didn't. He had just taken them for a merry chase three different times. Why did he run? Because he knew he would catch a beating even if he gave himself up willingly... It's just the way it was. The hell of the thing about it? Most of the times my brother, cousins and their friends had problems with the police, they hadn't been involved with whatever the police came calling about. Don't get me wrong, they pulled plenty of crap, but the cops just started assuming that it was the fvcking Prentices anytime anything happened. That kind of crap happens enough and eventually, they do start becoming violent. My Dad was able to pull my brother out of the cycle, and I was far enough removed in age from them and too good at school to get clumped in.
So here's my overall point. Young men of any class can and will get in trouble (just look at @Mik ), but it's generally going to be poorer kids that are going to get in deeper and more dangerous trouble, and more often. They are going to be more likely to get into drugs, they are more likely to get into alcohol. They also have a tendency to glorify and revel in violence a little more. They're angry. They're trapped. They do have more to fear from a traffic stop. Sometimes deservedly so, a lot of times not. The police have a tendency on focusing on the poor more, because that's where the problems occur most often. It becomes a cycle that gets just a little worse each time.
We heard about this case because the kid died, but I would bet quite a lot that similar incidents happened hundreds, hell thousands of times that very weekend across the country. Black kids got beat, white kids got beat, Hispanics, Asians... The most common thread I bet would be that they were poor.
I'm not having an easy time explaining my thoughts and experiences and turning them into a coherent argument. I'm trying to write this at work and there have been countless interruptions and disruptions, and I'm not very good at putting my thoughts onto a screen anyway. I'm just trying to say that what often gets blamed on race is normally a result of economics. It just happens that a much larger percentage of blacks are poor, and their "poor culture" has become more representational. However, to them, the biggest glaring difference they see in the disparity of treatment is skin color and they assume that's the reason. They don't look at the poor white people that are going through the same struggles. This (by the way) creates animosity in the poor white community, whose same struggles don't get the attention and offers of assistance that the black community does. So their anger starts actually developing a racial element and the next thing you know you have genuine racial strife.
This also speaks back to something that Jon had posted a few days about Rural Anger. I think the author of that article missed the boat. It's not rural, it's class. It's the poor, whether urban or rural, that's driving a lot of this anger. Unfortunately, much of it is misplaced, but it's very real.
I worked in a joint that tried to put these young men back together after they attended their meetings at the local gun & knife club. If we couldn't put them back together, I'd go unlock the morgue door and slide out the tray for the coroner's folks.
Now, I'll readily admit we have a higher percentage of black residents than a lot of places, so maybe I have a bias, but we got a lot more of those guys than other races. Gals, too. Nothing like a beating ( the girls tended to carry those belts in their purse) with a narrow fan or alternator belt.
I disagree it's simply economics, although that is a factor. I think an inherit, deep-rooted distrust of the police exists in the black community, exceeding other groups. I think a larger percentage of these young men have been raise in single parent homes, than any other group. And I think there is a large segment of the young black males involved in the drug business, with the resultant gang territory problems.
That's a recipe for violence. 75% of the inmates at Angola are black, out of a state population that is 31% black. The Farm is for the most violent offenders.
I think those numbers speak for themselves. -
I think you can make a case for higher crime in lower SES communities. But from 8th grade on I was hanging around with the lowest SES white kids who lived on the edge of the lower SES black neighborhood. We had a lot of interaction without friendship. The culture of violence was much, much deeper in the black neighborhood. It was the first response rather than the last resort. I believe that is the largest factor here.
-
-
You'll never shame votes out of white people by blaming cops in general. This is a nice side show, but we'll forget about it soon enough.
The most interesting question about this situation remains, would we have ever heard of this, had the victim been white? My guess is no. Clearly the fixation and wide publicity would not be there.
-
What I do not understand, is how cops can be so stupid. Certainly they realize there's a good chance they will be caught on video, they wear body-cams, and they know they will be caught and prosecuted. Yet they kick the shit out of a guy anyway as if they are just as uncivilized as the guy they're pounding. Really, it's worth going to jail? Especially jail as a (former) cop.
Yeah, and thanks LuFin's Dad for the background. I had tough things when I was growing up, but we were not poor. -
What I do not understand, is how cops can be so stupid. Certainly they realize there's a good chance they will be caught on video, they wear body-cams, and they know they will be caught and prosecuted. Yet they kick the shit out of a guy anyway as if they are just as uncivilized as the guy they're pounding. Really, it's worth going to jail? Especially jail as a (former) cop.
Yeah, and thanks LuFin's Dad for the background. I had tough things when I was growing up, but we were not poor.@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
What I do not understand, is how cops can be so stupid. Certainly they realize there's a good chance they will be caught on video, they wear body-cams, and they know they will be caught and prosecuted. Yet they kick the shit out of a guy anyway as if they are just as uncivilized as the guy they're pounding. Really, it's worth going to jail? Especially jail as a (former) cop.
Yeah, and thanks LuFin's Dad for the background. I had tough things when I was growing up, but we were not poor.If the guy hadn't died, and no real damage was done, nothing would have happened to the cops. That was their expectation.
-
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
-
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
@Horace said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
A few things about cops...
Cops are cops because they like the action that comes with the job. And the most action is after the sun goes down. Conversely, as the guys get older and have families, they'd rather work days. So the guys at night are usually the youngest and the least trained.
Once the adrenaline gets up, people do some weird things. Like beating the crap out of somebody after they've already had enough. Our ED had its own jail cell...Oh, the things I've seen...Once saw them shoot a guy in front of the hospital. Guy was dead before he hit the ground, shot so many times it blew the back of his yellow polo shirt into tatters. On the ground, his arm twitched towards his back pocket (life ain't the movies, people don't die at the snap of a finger), and the cops shot him so many more times it moved the body.
Shucks, my wife's first cousin was U.S. Marshal of The Year and ran his own fugitive unit. He was chasing a guy that ran into an apartment building and slammed the door before he could get to it. Glen went all Stallone and kicked the door in...Promptly breaking his leg. And then the rest of his team ran over him in the doorway.
Crazy things happen out there...
-
@Horace said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
A few things about cops...
Cops are cops because they like the action that comes with the job. And the most action is after the sun goes down. Conversely, as the guys get older and have families, they'd rather work days. So the guys at night are usually the youngest and the least trained.
Once the adrenaline gets up, people do some weird things. Like beating the crap out of somebody after they've already had enough. Our ED had its own jail cell...Oh, the things I've seen...Once saw them shoot a guy in front of the hospital. Guy was dead before he hit the ground, shot so many times it blew the back of his yellow polo shirt into tatters. On the ground, his arm twitched towards his back pocket (life ain't the movies, people don't die at the snap of a finger), and the cops shot him so many more times it moved the body.
Shucks, my wife's first cousin was U.S. Marshal of The Year and ran his own fugitive unit. He was chasing a guy that ran into an apartment building and slammed the door before he could get to it. Glen went all Stallone and kicked the door in...Promptly breaking his leg. And then the rest of his team ran over him in the doorway.
Crazy things happen out there...
@Jolly said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Horace said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@Rainman said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I dunno, Horace. These days a video like that, even if they guy lived, would have serious consequences as soon as it was seen online.
The body cams showed all but nothing. The damning evidence was from the streetlight camera, which would have gone undiscovered, but for the death. Or at least, that is my guess. I do not believe this behavior to be a huge aberration. I believe the damage they did, was an aberration, as was the availability of the footage from the street camera.
We would never have heard of the George Floyd incident if he hadn't died. Or at least that is my guess.
These are interesting questions, but I know people don't, by and large, enjoy engaging in hypotheticals.
A few things about cops...
Cops are cops because they like the action that comes with the job. And the most action is after the sun goes down.
My psychologist youtuber calls these people "sensation seekers". As social scientists go, some psychologists actually study real things with real science, and come to real understandings of real human characteristics. H/t Jordan Peterson. Or, in this case, Todd Grande.
Ideologically captured psychologists are, as always, notwithstanding.
Link to video -
@LuFins-Dad had a good point about the economics being a major reason, but there is also a big cultural factor I think also. There are poor people all over the world, and in many (not all) there is not the level of violence. And I am to speaking of just police violence, but also violence against each other.
Heck, I grew up poor (no running water (at first) in the house, bathroom out in the back, etc) but I don't remember violence being a part of life.
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.
-
@LuFins-Dad had a good point about the economics being a major reason, but there is also a big cultural factor I think also. There are poor people all over the world, and in many (not all) there is not the level of violence. And I am to speaking of just police violence, but also violence against each other.
Heck, I grew up poor (no running water (at first) in the house, bathroom out in the back, etc) but I don't remember violence being a part of life.
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
It’s been this way for urban blacks since at least the 40s. It’s not new, but it has worsened with the glorification of gang life since the 70s.
@Mik said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
It’s been this way for urban blacks since at least the 40s. It’s not new, but it has worsened with the glorification of gang life since the 70s.
Exactly right. I’m not saying rappers but…well, yes. Rap music to a large extent.
-
I think rap is a symptom and not the problem.
It’s kind of amazing that art didn’t completely die in a ruthless environment like that.
I feel so bad for the kids growing up in that situation - they really don’t have much of a chance and need a lot of help from the outside. A lot of help. And not just helicoptering in loads of money.
-
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Elbows up!
-
As soon as the statistics reveal a correlation with skin color, the science stops and the narrative begins. There is no way to study culture disentangled from skin color, when the social sciences and faux intellectuals in the CRT movement only think until a correlation with skin color is revealed, and then immediately stop thinking, as the narrative takes it from there.
but intelligent black people do regularly discuss the culture issues. Glenn Loury, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, and lots of lesser known people with black skin, will be able to discuss this stuff rationally. No white person can, as they are defined by the narrative as perpetually and inescapably ignorant. The white people in control of the black voices who are heard, are some combination of True Believers and social climbers. (One correlates with the other, and are hopelessly entangled anyway. Humans are systematically, predictably, and blindly irrational, in service of the advancement of their status.)
-
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
@Renauda said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@George-K said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
@taiwan_girl said in Tyre Nichols police beating/murder:
I was amazed that the #1 reason for dying by black males 18-29 is gun violence. @Mik is correct. Violence for some is a first resort rather than a last resort.
So, for me, changing the culture is the #1 things that needs to be done. Don't know how to do it, but it needs to be done.Has it always been thus? I don't think so.
If not, what societal change occurred at the time of the rise of this violence and culture?
Not sure about that, George. Listen to the lyrics of some the old country blues classics from the 1930s or earlier. Plenty of references to shooting’ the old lady or old man for messing around. Likewise jazz and early country music references to violence and death connected to prostitution, gambling, gangs, booze and heroin - for example Cab Calloway’s and Jimmie Roger’s versions of St James Infirmary during the ‘30s.
Indeed. Just read Manchild in the Promised Land. Violence was simply expected and if you didn’t fight you weren’t a man.
"You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell
