Thousands of lives ruined

xenon

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t implemented.

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

jon-nyc

@Jolly Shooting people who have violently breached a seat of government is hardly indiscriminate.

Jolly

@jon-nyc said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Jolly Shooting people who have violently breached a seat of government is hardly indiscriminate.

Tell that to Antifa. they've set federal buildings on fire with nary a shot in their general direction.

LuFins Dad

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

xenon

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Jolly

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Maybe Pelosi should have listened to the Trump team when they offered troops.

xenon

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Maybe Pelosi should have listened to the Trump team when they offered troops.

Yes, maybe they should have. But, maybe the Trump team should have told Trump that they told Pelosi the Capitol needed protection from his mob.

jon-nyc

I’m a little curious just what tools the secret service has on hand to neutralize overwhelming crowds. I bet it’s more than tear gas and fire hoses. I’m sure they’ve gamed various scenarios even before 1/6.

LuFins Dad

@jon-nyc said in Thousands of lives ruined:

I’m a little curious just what tools the secret service has on hand to neutralize overwhelming crowds. I bet it’s more than tear gas and fire hoses. I’m sure they’ve gamed various scenarios even before 1/6.

At the White House? Outside?

jon-nyc

@LuFins-Dad Seems like 2 different questions - what they have vs what scenarios would lead to their deployment. But I’m talking specifically about protecting the White House and its occupants.

LuFins Dad

I had thought that when President Obama’s really good friends planted and detonated bombs in the Capitol back in 71 that they had built in much better security measures? Shutters for the windows, interior gates, etc…

Horace

@jon-nyc said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Horace

Well it wasn’t a fantasy about the white house, it was a simple statement of fact that no one here disputed - that is, if such a mob had descended upon and breeched the whitehouse the secret service would have gone, quite literally, ballistic. To this day no one has claimed to believe otherwise.

And as I indicated it wasn’t blood lust driving the desire for some kind of similar treatment of the Capitol. As I said back in 2021 and again in my previous post, it is necessary that these indoctrinated doofuses see a significant downside that will prevent similar crimes in the future. I think the diligence of the DoJ has provided that. If it were bloodlust I were trying to satisfy then clearly I would find the DoJ’s efforts lacking.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot, in another thought experiment. Do you suppose it would squash social justice rioting and looting in the future, if rioters and looters were treated with unapologetic violence?

Horace

I would note also, that curiously absent from the fantasies of those who purport to only be concerned with the stability of our Democracy, is woulda coulda shoulda scenarios in which Capitol security was better, and January 6 was thus a forgotten footnote, about idiots pounding futilely on locked doors.

Jolly

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Maybe Pelosi should have listened to the Trump team when they offered troops.

Yes, maybe they should have. But, maybe the Trump team should have told Trump that they told Pelosi the Capitol needed protection from his mob.

I'll type slowly, so you can understand...Trump urged people to protest at the Capitol, but he urged them to protest peacefully.

Since you don't believe that or are incapable of understanding simple English, I suggest two things:

Google it up. The video is on the net.
Pelosi is responsible for the security at the Capitol. Trump's team could offer troops, but they can't make Pelosi take them.

xenon

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Maybe Pelosi should have listened to the Trump team when they offered troops.

Yes, maybe they should have. But, maybe the Trump team should have told Trump that they told Pelosi the Capitol needed protection from his mob.

I'll type slowly, so you can understand...Trump urged people to protest at the Capitol, but he urged them to protest peacefully.

Since you don't believe that or are incapable of understanding simple English, I suggest two things:

Google it up. The video is on the net.

Pelosi is responsible for the security at the Capitol. Trump's team could offer troops, but they can't make Pelosi take them.

Either Team Trump thought the mob was a riot risk or not. If it was a riot risk, then why send them to the Capitol? If they thought Trump's pleas for peaceful protest were enough to diffuse them, then why offer troops?

It's not a good look for Team Trump that they knew beforehand that this group was a riot risk.

Doctor Phibes

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Trump urged people to protest at the Capitol, but he urged them to protest peacefully.

...and he offered troops which would help them be even more peaceful.

Jolly

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@Jolly said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@xenon said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@LuFins-Dad said in Thousands of lives ruined:

@89th said in Thousands of lives ruined:

Around the 1:38 mark

Link to video

Thanks. I must admit to being caught off guard by the fact that the US Capitol is secured by frigging laminated glass.

I also am surprised by the lack of tear gas, high pressure hoses, and other riot measures that weren’t impleme

Not having riot gear at the Capitol has worked for hundreds of years so far.

Not at all. They have it on site and have deployed it on hundreds of occasions.

I think you're right. Just did some quick googling. Does show that the Capitol police is not very good at anticipating and quelling riots.

Maybe the leaders and individual officers deserve to be replaced, but it's still not their fault.

Maybe Pelosi should have listened to the Trump team when they offered troops.

Yes, maybe they should have. But, maybe the Trump team should have told Trump that they told Pelosi the Capitol needed protection from his mob.

I'll type slowly, so you can understand...Trump urged people to protest at the Capitol, but he urged them to protest peacefully.

Since you don't believe that or are incapable of understanding simple English, I suggest two things:

Google it up. The video is on the net.

Pelosi is responsible for the security at the Capitol. Trump's team could offer troops, but they can't make Pelosi take them.

Either Team Trump thought the mob was a riot risk or not. If it was a riot risk, then why send them to the Capitol? If they thought Trump's pleas for peaceful protest were enough to diffuse them, then why offer troops?

It's not a good look for Team Trump that they knew beforehand that this group was a riot risk.

You're letting your TDS get in the way of cogent thought. Many times, actions are taken on what might possibly happen. Not what people think will happen.

The Trump Team estimated 15,000 people would be attending the rally. The National Park Service, in an internal memo, thought that number too low, and anticipated about 20,000.

Regardless, even keeping in mind that 15K number, the Trump team offered the person in charge of security at the Capitol the use of troops, if she so wished. As evidenced by Ms. Pelosi's actions, she did not feel they were needed.

Why should she? Contrary to Jon's constant denigration of all things MAGA, Trump rallies had never led to any type of widespread violence. Usually, they led to no violence at all. Usually, MAGA people left the grounds cleaner than when they came, which was and is, highly unusual. And usually, Trump supporters had a very good rapport with law enforcement.

Instead of the crowd the Trump team expected, they got 250,000 people. Repeat, 250,000. Lots of pissed off people out there. Still lots of pissed off people out there, they've just learned to shut their mouths before the FBI swats them.

The number of people who actually entered the Capitol ranged from 400 - 800 to a current number of possibly 1200. Forgive my Jethro Bodine cipherin', but that puts the nasty element of the crowd at 0.16% to 0.48%.

So, now you're going to tell me that anybody can predict the actions of a few hundred people in a crowd of 250,000 people?

Try this for a thought exercise...What if those 250,000 people had shown up in Washington with mayhem on the agenda, carrying firearms, molotov cocktails and other destructive devices? What would have been the outcome?

Doesn't matter how many cops you had, or even how many troops you had, they'd have burned the Capitol to the ground and hung every damn Demonrat on Capitol Hill. Probably a few Republicans for good measure.

But none of that happened.

It didn't happen, because the vast majority of those folks at the rally, 99.9% to 99.6% were law-abiding Americans who did not trust the 2020 election results, and peacefully protested what they thought was a massive election crime.

There are lot of January 6 questions still out there, that the hand-picked committee members of the Politburo didn't want answered, because they didn't fit the political narrative they wanted to craft.

To be honest, I'm not even sure if those answers are worth seeking, since the MSM and Big tech will do their best to make sure Joe Sixpack never hears them. And as long as he keeps sitting on his couch, watching the Kardashians and letting the local ballot harvester mail in his vote, he wouldn't even care that he didn't know the Truth.

Bread & circuses, lad. Tends to work evrytime, especially if your side is the only one with a bullhorn.

Copper

@jon-nyc said in Thousands of lives ruined:

White House and its occupants.

I saw VP Dick Cheney arrive at the small airport where I worked. He got out of a helicopter, directly into a car and left the airport. he was there maybe 1 or 2 minutes.

The secret service spent the week prior to this inspecting the airport.

The day of the VP arrival they had snipers on the roofs of the 3 airport buildings and also in the woods.

We had to move all our airplanes about a mile from our normal parking so he could land there.

The airport was closed for 2 hours before the arrival. All the businesses on the airport had to close, mechanics, fuel vendors, our flight school and all private planes were grounded.

All that for just a few minutes of the VP on the ground.