The digital tip jar
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@LuFins-Dad said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@LuFins-Dad said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@Jolly said in The digital tip jar:
@Mik said in The digital tip jar:
It's just an industry that developed differently here than other places. Servers are not generally shortchanged if they are any good, and they can make very good money once they have developed the skills. My daughter was making $25 an hour and up during summers and holidays. Nothing is broken and it doesn't need to be fixed.
Went through college with a Greek fellow who paid his way working tables. He was good at what he did, he knew what type of restaurant to work and when the rest of us were tickled to find $4/hr part-time jobs, he was knocking down almost $20/hr. In 1980.
I started dishwashing. I got the job because a letter to the editor was published in the local paper about a particular kind of juvenile shenanigans. My dad found sand on my shoes, read the letter, put two and two together and that day, drove my ass to the stank-ass restaurant my uncle managed and told him I'd need a uniform. I never had another summer off.
I sucked ass at working. But I washed dishes for about three years, a new place every summer, until I was at least mediocre and another restaurant was hiring. I started dishwashing there, then covered for the delivery guy because word had gotten out the restaurant was willing to go to places others weren't, and everyone was taking us up on it.
The next summer, I did the delivering full-time along with the other guy. He taught me how to take 8-10 orders at a time and immediately balance out the most efficient loop to take vs. the order in which the orders actually came in vs. who was most and least likely to tip based on a lot of inside baseball.
It was a popular spot in a tourist area, so we were slammed basically from Memorial Day to Labor Day. One night, we were terribly under-staffed, so the BOH manager gave me a crash course in line work: he showed me how to properly parm something once, very fast ("wet-hand-dry-hand motherfucker or so help me God I will stab you!"), in the middle of a rush, and he expected me to do it exactly the same way for the rest of the night. I was able to do that, so it stuck. When I wasn't delivering, I was doing line work. And also filling in washing dishes because half our dishwashers just sucked and we couldn't wait for them.
A couple weeks into that, I noticed my paycheck changed. I asked if there was a mistake because they rang me up as a line cook, which was a substantial increase in the $2.18 I was making delivering.
Our BOH manager just stared at me. "What the fuck's the problem? You're doing the work, aren't you? You rotated the stock yet today?" (The latter of which was code for "don't piss me off with stupid questions or I'll give you stupid work to do.")
The restaurant owner then opened a newer, nicer place catty-corner to ours, and when the BOH manager finished his CIA (culinary) training, he ran the kitchen over there. My new routine was to line cook there, then deliver for the other place if they were overrun and we weren't underwater ourselves.
Between the line work (1.5 OT past 40 hours, too, and I never , ever worked under 55) and the deliveries, it would be quite a handful of years post-college before I made the hourly equivalent.
Deep Creek?
Ayep.
Have you seen the prices over the last 3 years? Insane.
Well, people in your area continue to pay 'em. Blame your neighbors.
(But yeah, it's far past ridiculous at this point.)
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@LuFins-Dad said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@LuFins-Dad said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@Jolly said in The digital tip jar:
@Mik said in The digital tip jar:
It's just an industry that developed differently here than other places. Servers are not generally shortchanged if they are any good, and they can make very good money once they have developed the skills. My daughter was making $25 an hour and up during summers and holidays. Nothing is broken and it doesn't need to be fixed.
Went through college with a Greek fellow who paid his way working tables. He was good at what he did, he knew what type of restaurant to work and when the rest of us were tickled to find $4/hr part-time jobs, he was knocking down almost $20/hr. In 1980.
I started dishwashing. I got the job because a letter to the editor was published in the local paper about a particular kind of juvenile shenanigans. My dad found sand on my shoes, read the letter, put two and two together and that day, drove my ass to the stank-ass restaurant my uncle managed and told him I'd need a uniform. I never had another summer off.
I sucked ass at working. But I washed dishes for about three years, a new place every summer, until I was at least mediocre and another restaurant was hiring. I started dishwashing there, then covered for the delivery guy because word had gotten out the restaurant was willing to go to places others weren't, and everyone was taking us up on it.
The next summer, I did the delivering full-time along with the other guy. He taught me how to take 8-10 orders at a time and immediately balance out the most efficient loop to take vs. the order in which the orders actually came in vs. who was most and least likely to tip based on a lot of inside baseball.
It was a popular spot in a tourist area, so we were slammed basically from Memorial Day to Labor Day. One night, we were terribly under-staffed, so the BOH manager gave me a crash course in line work: he showed me how to properly parm something once, very fast ("wet-hand-dry-hand motherfucker or so help me God I will stab you!"), in the middle of a rush, and he expected me to do it exactly the same way for the rest of the night. I was able to do that, so it stuck. When I wasn't delivering, I was doing line work. And also filling in washing dishes because half our dishwashers just sucked and we couldn't wait for them.
A couple weeks into that, I noticed my paycheck changed. I asked if there was a mistake because they rang me up as a line cook, which was a substantial increase in the $2.18 I was making delivering.
Our BOH manager just stared at me. "What the fuck's the problem? You're doing the work, aren't you? You rotated the stock yet today?" (The latter of which was code for "don't piss me off with stupid questions or I'll give you stupid work to do.")
The restaurant owner then opened a newer, nicer place catty-corner to ours, and when the BOH manager finished his CIA (culinary) training, he ran the kitchen over there. My new routine was to line cook there, then deliver for the other place if they were overrun and we weren't underwater ourselves.
Between the line work (1.5 OT past 40 hours, too, and I never , ever worked under 55) and the deliveries, it would be quite a handful of years post-college before I made the hourly equivalent.
Deep Creek?
Ayep.
Have you seen the prices over the last 3 years? Insane.
Well, people in your area continue to pay 'em. Blame your neighbors.
(But yeah, it's far past ridiculous at this point.)
Seriously, 2019 I was going to rent a place for 2 weeks but postponed. By 2021 I couldn’t afford 1 week and my income was up quite a bit…
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
I do not believe that tipping makes the service better.
Because you've never been a waitress in the U.S. So you don't know.
Say you are and you have 2 tables. Table A you've had before. They never tip well. Absolutely never. No matter what you do for them. Table B tips variably between good and excellently, depending on the service.
If you're in any way a decent waitress, what you're going to do is provide bare minimum coverage for Table A and put all your effort in Table B. Table A still gets their food, no one's getting scammed. But both parties get exactly what they pay for. And in the end, you make a shitload more money for an hour's worth if work. You win, Table B wins, and Table A doesn't have to pay extra for services it clearly doesn't value.
If you "just pay the poor servers the same decent wage" then everybody gets the same mediocre service. You don't go above and beyond for great customers, you have to put up with assholes, and there's no incentive to go the extra mile with anyone.
By that rationale, you should also tip your lawyer if he gives good legal advice, or your professor if he gives a good lecture, or your dentist, if he fixes the tooth without pain.
All these professions can do a decent job without tipping.
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@Klaus said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
I do not believe that tipping makes the service better.
Because you've never been a waitress in the U.S. So you don't know.
Say you are and you have 2 tables. Table A you've had before. They never tip well. Absolutely never. No matter what you do for them. Table B tips variably between good and excellently, depending on the service.
If you're in any way a decent waitress, what you're going to do is provide bare minimum coverage for Table A and put all your effort in Table B. Table A still gets their food, no one's getting scammed. But both parties get exactly what they pay for. And in the end, you make a shitload more money for an hour's worth if work. You win, Table B wins, and Table A doesn't have to pay extra for services it clearly doesn't value.
If you "just pay the poor servers the same decent wage" then everybody gets the same mediocre service. You don't go above and beyond for great customers, you have to put up with assholes, and there's no incentive to go the extra mile with anyone.
By that rationale, you should also tip your lawyer if he gives good legal advice, or your professor if he gives a good lecture, or your dentist, if he fixes the tooth without pain.
All these professions can do a decent job without tipping.
I've done both and can compare. You have not.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@Klaus said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
I do not believe that tipping makes the service better.
Because you've never been a waitress in the U.S. So you don't know.
Say you are and you have 2 tables. Table A you've had before. They never tip well. Absolutely never. No matter what you do for them. Table B tips variably between good and excellently, depending on the service.
If you're in any way a decent waitress, what you're going to do is provide bare minimum coverage for Table A and put all your effort in Table B. Table A still gets their food, no one's getting scammed. But both parties get exactly what they pay for. And in the end, you make a shitload more money for an hour's worth if work. You win, Table B wins, and Table A doesn't have to pay extra for services it clearly doesn't value.
If you "just pay the poor servers the same decent wage" then everybody gets the same mediocre service. You don't go above and beyond for great customers, you have to put up with assholes, and there's no incentive to go the extra mile with anyone.
By that rationale, you should also tip your lawyer if he gives good legal advice, or your professor if he gives a good lecture, or your dentist, if he fixes the tooth without pain.
All these professions can do a decent job without tipping.
I've done both and can compare. You have not.
Is that really the best argument you have?
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Just finishing up a 2-3 week trip to Ireland. (pics to follow LOL)
Among many, one of the refreshing things about Ireland is that there is NO TIPPING!!!!! That, and the tax is already included in the price. So, for example, if you go to a pub and the meal and drink = 20 Euro, that is the price you pay. You dont have to worry about X% tax and Y% tip. :happydance Because of this, i would say that meals are probably a bit cheaper than in the US. I think all countries should adopt this policy. The tax thing should be easy to do. Tipping, maybe a bit more difficult but doable.
Service was as good as restaurants in the US. There was no decrease in service from the staff because they were not receiving tips.
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@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
Just finishing up a 2-3 week trip to Ireland. (pics to follow LOL)
Among many, one of the refreshing things about Ireland is that there is NO TIPPING!!!!! That, and the tax is already included in the price. So, for example, if you go to a pub and the meal and drink = 20 Euro, that is the price you pay. You dont have to worry about X% tax and Y% tip. :happydance Because of this, i would say that meals are probably a bit cheaper than in the US. I think all countries should adopt this policy. The tax thing should be easy to do. Tipping, maybe a bit more difficult but doable.
Service was as good as restaurants in the US. There was no decrease in service from the staff because they were not receiving tips.
I've never understood why advertised prices don't include the sales tax. It's unbelievably stupid.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Klaus said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@Klaus said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
I do not believe that tipping makes the service better.
Because you've never been a waitress in the U.S. So you don't know.
Say you are and you have 2 tables. Table A you've had before. They never tip well. Absolutely never. No matter what you do for them. Table B tips variably between good and excellently, depending on the service.
If you're in any way a decent waitress, what you're going to do is provide bare minimum coverage for Table A and put all your effort in Table B. Table A still gets their food, no one's getting scammed. But both parties get exactly what they pay for. And in the end, you make a shitload more money for an hour's worth if work. You win, Table B wins, and Table A doesn't have to pay extra for services it clearly doesn't value.
If you "just pay the poor servers the same decent wage" then everybody gets the same mediocre service. You don't go above and beyond for great customers, you have to put up with assholes, and there's no incentive to go the extra mile with anyone.
By that rationale, you should also tip your lawyer if he gives good legal advice, or your professor if he gives a good lecture, or your dentist, if he fixes the tooth without pain.
All these professions can do a decent job without tipping.
I've done both and can compare. You have not.
Is that really the best argument you have?
No, but my point is that I have more than those who haven't had those experiences. Which makes me not really want to get into it all that much. You don't know what you don't know, and arguing against something you've only heard or read about is pretty weak. I'd rather discuss it with people who actually understand the pros and cons of both systems, from both a consumer and worker perspective.
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@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
Just finishing up a 2-3 week trip to Ireland. (pics to follow LOL)
Among many, one of the refreshing things about Ireland is that there is NO TIPPING!!!!! That, and the tax is already included in the price. So, for example, if you go to a pub and the meal and drink = 20 Euro, that is the price you pay. You dont have to worry about X% tax and Y% tip. :happydance Because of this, i would say that meals are probably a bit cheaper than in the US. I think all countries should adopt this policy. The tax thing should be easy to do. Tipping, maybe a bit more difficult but doable.
Service was as good as restaurants in the US. There was no decrease in service from the staff because they were not receiving tips.
So you want to change an entire business model because you had a nice meal in Ireland once. That's nice, were you in a car over there? Got any advice for our Secretary of Transportation about how wrong Americans are about domestic travel?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The digital tip jar:
I've never understood why advertised prices don't include the sales tax. It's unbelievably stupid.
It's the American Way, so shut up.
Maybe it's good exercise for American students to practice calcating percentages mentally at every turn.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
Just finishing up a 2-3 week trip to Ireland. (pics to follow LOL)
Among many, one of the refreshing things about Ireland is that there is NO TIPPING!!!!! That, and the tax is already included in the price. So, for example, if you go to a pub and the meal and drink = 20 Euro, that is the price you pay. You dont have to worry about X% tax and Y% tip. :happydance Because of this, i would say that meals are probably a bit cheaper than in the US. I think all countries should adopt this policy. The tax thing should be easy to do. Tipping, maybe a bit more difficult but doable.
Service was as good as restaurants in the US. There was no decrease in service from the staff because they were not receiving tips.
So you want to change an entire business model because you had a nice meal in Ireland once. That's nice, were you in a car over there? Got any advice for our Secretary of Transportation about how wrong Americans are about domestic travel?
LOL I want to change the business model because it is broke and not efficient. I have worked in a pub/restaurant without tips and have lived in various countries, from the US, where tipping is pretty much "mandatory" to countries where it is truly optional to countries where it is not done at all. Based on these data points, my observation is that tipping makes absolutely NO difference to the quality of service.
Aqua, you lived in Australia for a while, correct? My understanding from my Australia friends, is that tipping is not much done there. Do you think that service in restaurants, etc was noticeably worse than the US due to the lack of tipping?
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@taiwan_girl looking forward to the pics! I really enjoyed my visit to Ireland in 2007. Yes I recall there (and other places in Europe) I loved that the price of things included tax and no tip. Very simple, refreshing.
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@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
@taiwan_girl said in The digital tip jar:
Just finishing up a 2-3 week trip to Ireland. (pics to follow LOL)
Among many, one of the refreshing things about Ireland is that there is NO TIPPING!!!!! That, and the tax is already included in the price. So, for example, if you go to a pub and the meal and drink = 20 Euro, that is the price you pay. You dont have to worry about X% tax and Y% tip. :happydance Because of this, i would say that meals are probably a bit cheaper than in the US. I think all countries should adopt this policy. The tax thing should be easy to do. Tipping, maybe a bit more difficult but doable.
Service was as good as restaurants in the US. There was no decrease in service from the staff because they were not receiving tips.
So you want to change an entire business model because you had a nice meal in Ireland once. That's nice, were you in a car over there? Got any advice for our Secretary of Transportation about how wrong Americans are about domestic travel?
LOL I want to change the business model because it is broke and not efficient.
Good for you.
I've explained and have given specific examples of how this works in practice for the server, and the customer. Why it's better for everybody who isn't a cretin or socially inept.
And, plenty of others get this. They go out to restaurants they like specifically because the service at their favorite place is exceptional, and yet somehow you know better than the millions of people who do this.
You've also never worked for tips and, big surprise, you come from a corner of the world where it's not as commonplace. But no, none of this factors in here does it, you just know better because what? You've thought about it while having a meal in Ireland. Congrats, you're an expert.
Based on these data points
Pro tip: if you want people to think you know what're talking about when it comes to tipping, don't say something like "based on these data points."
Aqua, you lived in Australia for a while, correct? My understanding from my Australia friends, is that tipping is not much done there.
Correct!
Do you think that service in restaurants, etc was noticeably worse than the US due to the lack of tipping?
Yes. Yes it was. It was as transactional as a gas station. The nicer places were a bit better on average, but the fucking rib shack near me has far better service than any place I ever went to in Oz, some of which had bills an order of magnitude higher. Guess what business model the rib shack operates under!
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
Why it's better for everybody who isn't a cretin or socially inept.
Have you been reading Dale Carnegie's book again?
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
Why it's better for everybody who isn't a cretin or socially inept.
Have you been reading Dale Carnegie's book again?
No, I just know the job. And I already said several times that tipping doesn't work everywhere in every circumstance.Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
And I already said several times that tipping doesn't work everywhere in every circumstance.
In between all the ranting, obviously
I hesitate to set you off again, but I kind of feel like the tipping in the US has got a bit out of hand. When I visited the UK last month it was quite nice knowing the bar people weren't expecting me to pay half their rent after a round of drinks. And to be honest, the overall experience in a British pub is quite a lot better than it is over here. There's a lot less fucking around. You go up, you buy a drink, you drink you drink your drink, you give them 50p, you get another drink, and so on.
Still, each to their own. I certainly wouldn't want to break a system that almost works.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
And I already said several times that tipping doesn't work everywhere in every circumstance.
In between all the ranting, obviously
I hesitate to set you off again, but I kind of feel like the tipping in the US has got a bit out of hand.
No, it has. But you're blaming the wrong thing.
If you're like basically everyone else out there, you've transitioned some time in the past 30 years and you started using a plastic card to pay for almost everything.
Those plastic cards can't be swiped through carbon paper anymore. The transactions need to go through as quickly as possible.
It's not like restaurant owners, cafes and grocery stores are also in the business of creating flatscreen tablets and bank transactional software. They buy setups from other companies like Square so that they can easily take the form of payment their customers now prefer. Those setups come with tipping screens as part of the software.
The vast majority of the tipping shenanigans you old folks are complaining about wasn't instigated by anybody at the business you're wagging your finger at. All they did was buy a freaking tablet to run credit card orders.
When I visited the UK last month it was quite nice knowing the bar people weren't expecting me to pay half their rent after a round of drinks. And to be honest, the overall experience in a British pub is quite a lot better than it is over here. There's a lot less fucking around. You go up, you buy a drink, you drink you drink your drink, you give them 50p, you get another drink, and so on.
Have fun with that line when it gets busy. One guess as to why I don't have one.
Still, each to their own. I certainly wouldn't want to break a system that almost works.
You're going to have an uphill battle if your starting position is, "see at British restaurants it's better because—"
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
You're going to have an uphill battle if your starting position is, "see at British restaurants it's better because—"
I wasn't talking about restaurants. However, I'd argue that based on personal experience both Italian and French restaurants are considerably better than American ones, which are much more similar to British ones than you might like to admit.
Have you ever been to a British pub?
And I don't mean a pub that sells beer in a former British colony.
I'm not complaining about the mechanics of tipping. I'm complaining about the expectation of having to pay 20% and more for a round of drinks. It's a bit much.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The digital tip jar:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The digital tip jar:
Have you ever been to a British pub?
Yes, I have. Mind you, it was London, but I went to a few and they were fine for what they were, but on the whole I find it surprising anyone would actually boast about them. Scotland's were better in my opinion, if for no other reason than the stuffed shirt douchebag saturation level was lower.I'm complaining about the expectation of having to pay 20% and more for a round of drinks. It's a bit much.
I find it no coincidence whatsoever that you're also from one of the most socially conservative and reserved developed countries in the world.
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I think you went to the wrong pubs. At the last one I went to there were two lesbians making out at the next table
Admittedly, we left in disgust - they were charging 6 pounds a pint!
