My next piano??

[George K]

I love it when you guys talk dirty.

[LuFins Dad]

@Rainman said in My next piano??:

@LuFins-Dad said in My next piano??:

@Rainman said in My next piano??:

Years (decades?) ago, Kawai digital keyboards had a button where you could choose the tuning system. It was fun to play selections from Bach's WTC in "better" tuning systems than equal temperament, just to hear the difference.
Do Kawai keyboards still have this feature, or does anyone know if different manufacturers have it?

They all have different temperaments.

So they all have the ability to switch to, say, meantone temperament, or the earlier just intonation?

Meantone, Pythagorean, Pure Major/Pure Minor, Werckmeister, Kimberger…

[Rainman]

I think it would be interesting, and maybe even with more emotional impact, to be able to change tuning systems during a piece, like a stop on an organ, where the audience is not aware a change has taken place. The audience would react to the music passage being even more beautiful e.g., sad, tragic, ecstatic, triumphal, etc., than the usual affect of the music. A tear in the eye could become an entire audience bawling their eyes out, thinking it's all the performer's interpretation. Hay Ax, you interested?

[LuFins Dad]

@Rainman said in My next piano??:

I think it would be interesting, and maybe even with more emotional impact, to be able to change tuning systems during a piece, like a stop on an organ, where the audience is not aware a change has taken place. The audience would react to the music passage being even more beautiful e.g., sad, tragic, ecstatic, triumphal, etc., than the usual affect of the music. A tear in the eye could become an entire audience bawling their eyes out, thinking it's all the performer's interpretation. Hay Ax, you interested?

You can do that pretty easily…

[Rainman]

Yeah, if "pretty easily" means a push of a button. That's exactly what I am looking for. I really had no idea that (some of?) the high end digital pianos all had this feature! Would also like a Hammond XK-5 and of course w/ Leslie, I know exactly where they would fit in the living room. Anyway, when I get closer to buying, I'll start a thread instead of hijacking this thread. Thanks for the info LD.

[kluurs]

You really should look into the Pianoteq software - allows you do all kinds of interesting things - changing pitch is child's play - but you also can hear various pianos - not just the usual ones - but Broadwood, Pleyal, Streicher, Erard, etc. They have an 1899 Bechstein concert grand along with an 1850's Steinway square grand. You can adjust pitch, play with the individual tuning - a lot of flexibility.

[George K]

@kluurs so. how's the search going?

[kluurs]

@George-K said in My next piano??:

@kluurs so. how's the search going?

Life's provided some distractions - but I'm hoping to hit Pianoforte today - and try out the Yamahas. We'll see. I've got the Casio as a proof of concept - and have added the Pianoteq software which makes it sound great - so it is really just the action/durability that I'm thinking about. The one thing that I started thinking about it I'm 68, hands are getting more stiff/arthritic each year - and how long before my playing time expires - 5, 10, 15 years? The horizon isn't as long as it once was for sure - but I know if I fall in love with one of the pianos, it may become clearer. Otherwise, with the newly added software - I can have a lot of fun.with what I have.

[George K]

@kluurs said in My next piano??:

so it is really just the action/durability that I'm thinking about.

That is my #1 concern. I'm not all that concerned about the sound, but I want something that'll last me with fairly rigorous playing.

My Kawai CE200 is worn out, and it's not worth repairing.

[kluurs]

@George-K A friend in the "business" says that for the under $2,000 digitals - just think of them as microwave ovens. Nice when they work. When they stop - just toss. The challenge with the real action pianos is finding the appropriate repair person - not a huge problem in Chicago - but maybe a bit more difficult in Nowhere, Iowa.

[LuFins Dad]

@kluurs said in My next piano??:

@George-K A friend in the "business" says that for the under $2,000 digitals - just think of them as microwave ovens. Nice when they work. When they stop - just toss. The challenge with the real action pianos is finding the appropriate repair person - not a huge problem in Chicago - but maybe a bit more difficult in Nowhere, Iowa.

Not with the Avants. It is the physical action. I run into that a lot, though. The technician says he can’t do it until you open it up…

I’m a Yamaha fanboy and am considering getting a CVP809 for home next year. Jon made a good choice with the CLP645. The touch is fine and is even better on the CLP745. That being said, if your concern strictly is the action, the Roland is closer, in my opinion. It also carries a 10 year warrant (addressing your longevity concerns), and has 100 levels for adjusting the “weight”…

[kluurs]

Well, today was the visit to the Yamaha dealer. I tried the N1X, CLP795 and CLP765 if memory serves - supposedly the equivalent of the 785 and 735. I also tried a 635 that had been a rental. For almost $12,000 the N1H is nice - BUT it isn't that much better than the 745, 735. In our home, it would have to contend with a negative WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor in the parlance of audiophiles). That is, the N1X SCREAMS LOOK AT ME!! That is not what we are seeking in our eclectic appearing - but more traditional home. We don't want something that calls attention to itself. That's where a matte finish comes in handy - and all of the CLPs could do well. Even the 635 is nice. One of the ways I judge a piano is how relaxed I feel playing it - and the 635 did that superbly. The 635 doesn't have a wooden keyset which I believe is the big difference with the 645/745.

The other thing I had been worried about was thinking that the N1X would look huge - but its footprint isn't that bad -

Here's the 635 which doesn't shout at me.

The 635 which looks and feels like new is $2,000. All of the Yamahas sounded decent through headphones - but I'm not sure how big a deal that is if one is using Pianoteq and choosing the piano of their (ha!) dreams.

The nearest Roland dealer that carries the good stuff is Cordogan's which is a bit of a road trip. As I mentioned the Yamaha dealer, if I were to consider the N1X, I would definitely need to bring spouse for a visit and make her think she could accept the garish appearance of the N1X. I wish Yamaha would better entertain the notion of understated elegance over the high style look of the instrument.

[George K]

Looks like they don't advertise their used digitals on their website.

Did you play Für Elise for them?

I've read good things about the Kawai CA series - the CA49 is budget friendly, and the CA59 is, basically, the same thing with different samples, iirc. They have among the longest keys.

Another review I saw recommends the (!) Korg GA1-Air. It's a very shallow style (you can't rest sheet music on the top), but gets a lot of sound out of a small space.

[jon-nyc]

I tried whatever Roland was best back when I was shopping and greatly preferred the Yamaha.

[kluurs]

I got interested in Pianoteq software because Chris O'Reily and Hugh Sung both are big advocates for it. Having just started playing with it, I'm impressed with what one can do. One can change pianos - and even within a particular instrument, there's an incredible amount of flexibility in what one can do with temperment tunings, hardness of hammers, etc. They have a number of modern instruments plus 3 museum collections of historical instruments. I'm looking forward to trying an 1899 Bechstein concert grand - a piano which Debussy favored. But one can also play Mozart on a Streicher or Beethoven on a Broadwood. Prefer a Hamburg to a US Steinway - no problem. They even have uprights and square pianos to choose from. So....a long winded way of saying that keyboard action is king.

[mark]

I just downloaded this free VST plugin called Neo Piano by SoundMagic.

https://neovst.com/piano-one/

Using it with my Alesis VX49 Midi controller and MixBus32c DAW. It sounds great, especially for the price.

[kluurs]

Just played the Roland LX705. Really nice. Also tried the top of the line Kawai ca99 which was decent but I prefer the Roland. He’s the only dealer and he has exactly one in stock so not a great deal. We will see. I’m still going to play the Yamaha again.

[George K]

@kluurs you drove out to Geneva?

Was there anything else you looked at there?

I’m still going to play the Yamaha again.

Which one, the CLP635?

[kluurs]

OK, the eagle has landed.

I played Yamahas at our local dealers and Roland/Kawais at the local Kawai/Roland/Casio dealer.

I literally was about to pull the trigger on a deal when I got a couple of calls in quick succession that changed and complicated the decision. The local Kawai/Roland/Casio dealer got "real" on the pricing for a Roland HP704 and about 45 minutes later one of the Yamaha dealers offered an incredible deal on a N1X that turned my head. It was still a bit more than 2x the price of the Roland, but the N1X has a real grand piano action and would likely last as long as I do. It's a lot of fun to play. The problem remained that the appearance just doesn't "fit" in our home. It would sit smiling and glittery across from a Steinway B that would be forever contemptuous of the new instrument to our home.

I want to thank LD who clearly knows the business inside and out - and was very patient with me in helping me to make the decision I did. As LD and others have noted, the HP704's strengths are not necessarily in the realm of sound, but rather in its action. While I would take the N1X's action over the HP704, the Roland action is quite decent. The Roland LX706 had a nicer cabinet - one of the nicest looking ones out there - but in playing both, I felt like I was paying for the cabinet and not getting a better instrument.

One thing I negotiated for with the local dealer was an artist bench which is more useful than the standard bench.
Attendees at piano gatherings are remarkably particular about the quality of benches..

Aside from the piano decision stuff, one thing that was refreshing is that no one at any of the dealers hovered over me or did anything that resembled "selling". Perhaps it is because I'm old, brought in a stack of music and headphones, or it is a new a new world in which sales folks aren't pushy. It was quite different from back in the day. LD was far more helpful person in this enterprise.

3 person delivery..

[George K]

@kluurs nice!

I hope there was no lyre-tipping by the delivery guys.

Tell us more about the PianoTec stuff.

How, exactly does it work?