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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2

Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2

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  • J jon-nyc
    18 Nov 2022, 22:33

    @Jolly said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

    The support for Ukraine may slow with a coming recession.

    True, but I was mostly concerned about the appeasement/Putin fanboi wing of the GOP getting too much power. With the MAGA implosion that doesn’t seem to have happened.

    R Offline
    R Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 01:40 last edited by Renauda
    #53

    @jon-nyc

    Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

    Elbows up!

    G 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 01:45
    • R Renauda
      19 Nov 2022, 01:40

      @jon-nyc

      Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

      G Offline
      G Offline
      George K
      wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 01:45 last edited by
      #54

      @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

      @jon-nyc

      Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

      I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

      Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      R J 2 Replies Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 15:18
      • G George K
        19 Nov 2022, 01:45

        @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

        @jon-nyc

        Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

        I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

        Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

        R Offline
        R Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:18 last edited by
        #55

        @George-K

        Okay, maybe not fanbois. However their support scepticism is derived from John Mearsheimer who is calling for the appeasement of Putin in all fronts.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mik
          wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:26 last edited by
          #56

          Here's his picture.

          alt text

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • G George K
            19 Nov 2022, 01:45

            @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

            @jon-nyc

            Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

            I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

            Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

            J Offline
            J Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:28 last edited by
            #57

            @George-K said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

            @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

            @jon-nyc

            Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

            I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

            Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

            Skeptical from an America First perspective. Entanglements in foreign wars, etc...

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            J 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 17:41
            • M Mik
              18 Nov 2022, 21:20

              Compared to the trillions of dollars we poured own the rathole in the past three years, Ukraine aid is a bargain, and actually goes toward an end we want. A vitally important one.

              Putin stuck his dick in the meat grinder. Let's make sure he can't pull it back out unharmed, much less be rewarded for it.

              J Offline
              J Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:29 last edited by
              #58

              @Mik said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

              Compared to the trillions of dollars we poured own the rathole in the past three years, Ukraine aid is a bargain, and actually goes toward an end we want. A vitally important one.

              Putin stuck his dick in the meat grinder. Let's make sure he can't pull it back out unharmed, much less be rewarded for it.

              Here's the problem: Money and weapons stockpiles.

              Money, we print. Weapons, not so much. I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

              Mr. Biden knows this.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              R 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 15:52
              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mik
                wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:34 last edited by
                #59

                Pick your poison.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:36 last edited by
                  #60

                  Yeah, but don't let the Chinese pick it.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  M 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 17:38
                  • J Jolly
                    19 Nov 2022, 15:29

                    @Mik said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                    Compared to the trillions of dollars we poured own the rathole in the past three years, Ukraine aid is a bargain, and actually goes toward an end we want. A vitally important one.

                    Putin stuck his dick in the meat grinder. Let's make sure he can't pull it back out unharmed, much less be rewarded for it.

                    Here's the problem: Money and weapons stockpiles.

                    Money, we print. Weapons, not so much. I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

                    Mr. Biden knows this.

                    R Offline
                    R Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 15:52 last edited by Renauda
                    #61

                    @Jolly

                    I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

                    How credible are the sources and estimates?

                    Here’s one and it seems credible. It also suggests that matters are in hand and are being addressed:

                    https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/11/18/the-precarious-state-of-us-defense-stockpiles

                    Elbows up!

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 17:24
                    • R Renauda
                      19 Nov 2022, 15:52

                      @Jolly

                      I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

                      How credible are the sources and estimates?

                      Here’s one and it seems credible. It also suggests that matters are in hand and are being addressed:

                      https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/11/18/the-precarious-state-of-us-defense-stockpiles

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 17:24 last edited by
                      #62

                      @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                      @Jolly

                      I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

                      How credible are the sources and estimates?

                      Here’s one and it seems credible. It also suggests that matters are in hand and are being addressed:

                      https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/11/18/the-precarious-state-of-us-defense-stockpiles

                      In the article you are citing, it talks about 36 month continuous production, non-competitive contracts...That's three years production. And it also says some Stinger components are not even available, pushing any Stinger manufacturing to sometime in 2023.

                      I'm not sure if the numbers cited in the article take into account a constant flow of munitions to Ukraine, or anything to Taiwan.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      R 1 Reply Last reply 19 Nov 2022, 17:47
                      • J Jolly
                        19 Nov 2022, 15:36

                        Yeah, but don't let the Chinese pick it.

                        M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mik
                        wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 17:38 last edited by
                        #63

                        @Jolly said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                        Yeah, but don't let the Chinese pick it.

                        I suspect the Chinese are taking a very long look at the economic and political consequences of Russia's invasion, and western solidarity. I doubt they wish to experience something similar.

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Jolly
                          19 Nov 2022, 15:28

                          @George-K said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                          @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                          @jon-nyc

                          Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

                          I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

                          Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

                          Skeptical from an America First perspective. Entanglements in foreign wars, etc...

                          J Online
                          J Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 17:41 last edited by
                          #64

                          @Jolly said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                          @George-K said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                          @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                          @jon-nyc

                          Regardless of the outcome that is a legitimate concern. There’s still the Carlson/Gabbard tag team fanboi/appeasers out there.

                          I'm not sure if I'd characterize either them as "fanbois." Support skeptics, to be sure, but fans of Putin? I don't think so.

                          Screenshot 2022-11-18 at 7.44.55 PM.png

                          Skeptical from an America First perspective. Entanglements in foreign wars, etc...

                          That was the GOP’s precise argument for not standing up to Hitler, right down to the branding.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • J Jolly
                            19 Nov 2022, 17:24

                            @Renauda said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                            @Jolly

                            I've seen some estimates it'll take us three years to catch up our inventories.

                            How credible are the sources and estimates?

                            Here’s one and it seems credible. It also suggests that matters are in hand and are being addressed:

                            https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/11/18/the-precarious-state-of-us-defense-stockpiles

                            In the article you are citing, it talks about 36 month continuous production, non-competitive contracts...That's three years production. And it also says some Stinger components are not even available, pushing any Stinger manufacturing to sometime in 2023.

                            I'm not sure if the numbers cited in the article take into account a constant flow of munitions to Ukraine, or anything to Taiwan.

                            R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 17:47 last edited by Renauda
                            #65

                            @Jolly

                            I get that.

                            So how else do you propose Putin is contained and kept out of expanding deeper into Eastern and ultimately into the Baltics and Central Europe? Contrary to Kremlin propaganda, Putin has no intention to accept any terms with Ukraine short of total capitulation and forfeiture of national sovereignty.

                            Not unlike Chamberlain’s dilemma in 1938. He could have made a deal with Stalin to protect Czechoslovakia from Hitler. Behind the scenes Britain, France, Czechoslovakia and the USSR discussed this. It didn’t happen though, because neither Britain or France knew how to get Stalin out of Central Europe once he was there.

                            Of course present day situation is very different. Not least because Ukraine is willing to fight to the last person to remain sovereign and independent of Moscow. Too bad, because the Ukrainians are following the example of the Poles in 1939 when first Hitler then Stalin, two weeks later, wiped their country off the map of Europe.

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on 19 Nov 2022, 23:22 last edited by
                              #66

                              I think we need to take a really hard look at what it takes to keep Ukraine supplied. A lot of their equipment is Soviet or Russian based and I think the former Soviet Bloc countries should divest themselves of anything left that's decent and send it to Ukraine. That means that NATO has to do a couple of things:

                              1. We have to resupply with NATO-friendly weapons any of the weapons those former Soviet satellites are donating, with an eye on as much standardization as possible. We also have to continue to supply Ukraine with munitions and parts for those Western armaments already in country.

                              2. We also have to have a coordinated NATO effort to manufacture what is needed. Maybe Turkey takes the lead in small arms. Germany makes some pretty good mobile artillery. Scandinavia makes good fighter jets and Britain's Challenger is a very, very good tank. The U.S. has Stingers, smart rounds, F-16's, etc. It's going to take everybody working together in both funding and production to pull this off, but we need a clear vision of what we need and how we need to get there.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Nov 2022, 00:19
                              • J Jolly
                                19 Nov 2022, 23:22

                                I think we need to take a really hard look at what it takes to keep Ukraine supplied. A lot of their equipment is Soviet or Russian based and I think the former Soviet Bloc countries should divest themselves of anything left that's decent and send it to Ukraine. That means that NATO has to do a couple of things:

                                1. We have to resupply with NATO-friendly weapons any of the weapons those former Soviet satellites are donating, with an eye on as much standardization as possible. We also have to continue to supply Ukraine with munitions and parts for those Western armaments already in country.

                                2. We also have to have a coordinated NATO effort to manufacture what is needed. Maybe Turkey takes the lead in small arms. Germany makes some pretty good mobile artillery. Scandinavia makes good fighter jets and Britain's Challenger is a very, very good tank. The U.S. has Stingers, smart rounds, F-16's, etc. It's going to take everybody working together in both funding and production to pull this off, but we need a clear vision of what we need and how we need to get there.

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 20 Nov 2022, 00:19 last edited by Renauda
                                #67

                                @Jolly

                                I agree with all your points. My understanding is that the former WP members are doing just that - divesting themselves of Soviet era equipment by sending it to the Ukrainians. Makes sense too, the Ukrainians do not need any training to use it in the field. They are essentially turn key weapon transfers to Ukraine.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • M Mik
                                  18 Nov 2022, 21:20

                                  Compared to the trillions of dollars we poured own the rathole in the past three years, Ukraine aid is a bargain, and actually goes toward an end we want. A vitally important one.

                                  Putin stuck his dick in the meat grinder. Let's make sure he can't pull it back out unharmed, much less be rewarded for it.

                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on 20 Nov 2022, 00:44 last edited by
                                  #68

                                  @Mik said in Leaks in the pipeline - Nord Stream 1 & 2:

                                  Compared to the trillions of dollars we poured own the rathole in the past three years, Ukraine aid is a bargain, and actually goes toward an end we want. A vitally important one.

                                  Putin stuck his dick in the meat grinder. Let's make sure he can't pull it back out unharmed, much less be rewarded for it.

                                  I agree!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • G Offline
                                    G Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on 8 Feb 2023, 12:49 last edited by
                                    #69

                                    How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

                                    Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

                                    Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

                                    Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

                                    Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible.

                                    There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Forces Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins Dad
                                      wrote on 8 Feb 2023, 12:55 last edited by
                                      #70

                                      Wait, what?

                                      The Brad

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on 8 Feb 2023, 12:58 last edited by
                                        #71

                                        Maybe the Chinese paid The Big Guy, so the Russians would sell them cheap natural gas.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J Online
                                          J Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on 8 Feb 2023, 13:07 last edited by
                                          #72

                                          Jesus, he’s still alive?

                                          Could be true, but to be honest I haven’t put much stock in his writings in decades.

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                          G 1 Reply Last reply 8 Feb 2023, 13:17
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