Student loan cancellation
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Would it be too inconceivable to think that perhaps Prof. Tribe may have many former students outside of Harvard Law School, or that some of his Harvard Law School students may have chosen to go into public service (e.g., public defenders) or non-profit pursuits (e.g., charitable organizations, community organizing) and do not make much money?
@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
or that some of his Harvard Law School students may have chosen to go into public service (e.g., public defenders) or non-profit pursuits (e.g., charitable organizations, community organizing) and do not make much money?
You mean they made a strategic choice in life regarding how much money they are fine with making while having debt to pay off?
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, is unfair to many, many students, and gave the GOP a very easy layup during debates in 2022 and 2024.
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@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
or that some of his Harvard Law School students may have chosen to go into public service (e.g., public defenders) or non-profit pursuits (e.g., charitable organizations, community organizing) and do not make much money?
You mean they made a strategic choice in life regarding how much money they are fine with making while having debt to pay off?
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, is unfair to many, many students, and gave the GOP a very easy layup during debates in 2022 and 2024.
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@89th said in Student loan cancellation:
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, …
Yeah, Liz and Bernie have some ideas there that Joe and Kyrsten and the entire GOP are not too enthused about.
@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
@89th said in Student loan cancellation:
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, …
Yeah, Liz and Bernie have some ideas there that Joe and Kristen and the entire GOP are not too enthused about.
I bet those ideas do not contain any kernel of truth regarding the uselessness of most degrees and that the fix is not to make them more affordable but rather to stop encouraging their pursuit.
Education is extremely important.
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@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
or that some of his Harvard Law School students may have chosen to go into public service (e.g., public defenders) or non-profit pursuits (e.g., charitable organizations, community organizing) and do not make much money?
You mean they made a strategic choice in life regarding how much money they are fine with making while having debt to pay off?
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, is unfair to many, many students, and gave the GOP a very easy layup during debates in 2022 and 2024.
@89th said in Student loan cancellation:
You mean they made a strategic choice in life regarding how much money they are fine with making while having debt to pay off?
Yeah, a lot like how some politicians keep making a strategic choice to cut government tax revenues while the the government still having debt to pay off.
Some may indeed be opportunistic, some see public/charitable service as a calling with “low pay” merely an unfortunate side effect of answering the call.
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@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
@89th said in Student loan cancellation:
This move does nothing to address the cost of college, …
Yeah, Liz and Bernie have some ideas there that Joe and Kristen and the entire GOP are not too enthused about.
I bet those ideas do not contain any kernel of truth regarding the uselessness of most degrees and that the fix is not to make them more affordable but rather to stop encouraging their pursuit.
@Horace said in Student loan cancellation:
I bet those ideas do not contain any kernel of truth regarding the uselessness of most degrees and that the fix is not to make them more affordable but rather to stop encouraging their pursuit.
Yeah, it would perhaps be nice if those opposing Liz and Bernie’s idea can suggest modifications to exclude “useless degrees”, perhaps even identify what degrees should be encouraged and what should be discouraged.
Don’t forget vocational training/apprenticeships. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to include vocational training/apprenticeship when it comes to loan forgiveness or other policy ideas meant to lower the cost for post-secondary education.
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Why doesn't the Whitehouse concentrate on making college and vocational programs more affordable? That would have a larger positive political appeal.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Senator Warren defended the loan cancellation saying that providing funds to those in debt would enable them to contribute to the economy.
I'm so old that I remember when that was called "Voodoo Economics."
Go to about 8:20.
Link to video -
Why doesn't the Whitehouse concentrate on making college and vocational programs more affordable? That would have a larger positive political appeal.
@Jolly said in Student loan cancellation:
Why doesn't the Whitehouse concentrate on making college and vocational programs more affordable? That would have a larger positive political appeal.
Right?
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.
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@Jolly said in Student loan cancellation:
Why doesn't the Whitehouse concentrate on making college and vocational programs more affordable? That would have a larger positive political appeal.
Right?
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
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@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
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@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
@LuFins-Dad said in Student loan cancellation:
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
https://www.politico.com/playbook
Sen. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-Nev.): “I don’t agree with today’s executive action because it doesn’t address the root problems that make college unaffordable. We should be focusing on passing my legislation to expand Pell Grants for lower income students, target loan forgiveness to those in need, and actually make college more affordable for working families.”
Rep. JARED GOLDEN (D-Maine): “This decision by the president is out of touch with what the majority of the American people want from the White House, which is leadership to address the most immediate challenges the country is facing.”…
Rep. SHARICE DAVIDS (D-Kan.): “It’s not how I would have addressed the issue.”
More Democrats (BIRM) The Washington Post:
Widely canceling student loan debt is regressive. It takes money from the broader tax base, mostly made up of workers who did not go to college, to subsidize the education debt of people with valuable degrees. Though Mr. Biden’s plan includes an income cap, the threshold does not reflect need or earnings potential, meaning white-collar professionals with high future salaries stand to benefit. Student loans, moreover, are a poor proxy for household income: An analysis by policy researcher Jason D. Delisle found that, in 2016, students from high-income and low-income families were just as likely to take on debt for their first year in an undergraduate program — and students from high-income families borrowed the largest amounts.
How the student debt movement forced Biden’s hand
Mr. Biden’s plan is also expensive — and likely inflationary. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates that extending the loan pause to the end of the year would cost $20 billion, while forgiving $10,000 for households making less than $300,000 would cost $230 billion. Together, these policies would nullify nearly a decade’s worth of deficit reduction from the Inflation Reduction Act. Moreover, it is unclear that the 1965 Higher Education Act even grants the president the legal authority to take such a sweeping step, given that it was historically understood to permit only more targeted relief -
The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
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The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
Yep, and it’s an idiotic attempt at an attack, anyway.
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The loan forgiveness of the PPP loans were a feature of the program. The forgiveness was an agreed to condition. Forgiveness was never a feature of the Federal Student Loans. There are no conditions required of the student except pay back the money at the agreed upon schedule., no forgiveness…There is no equivalence.
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Even if there was equivalence, people are still entitled to criticize programs that they are receiving benefits from. I still criticize the stimulus payments. I didn’t send them back though. Whether we kept the payments or not, I am still going to pay for them, as will Luke and Finley, so those were donated to a few worthy causes and invested into college funds. I feel no ethical dilemma over it. The payments were wrong, and we are seeing some of the repercussions of them now, but there is no moral high ground to turning away the payments so they can be squandered some other way…
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22 Republican Governors publish joint open letter opposing student loan forgiveness:
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I cannot help but compare the real benefits if we used that money to fix our immigration system.
@Mik said in Student loan cancellation:
I cannot help but compare the real benefits if we used that money to fix our immigration system.
Can we really use that “money” for anything else? There is no “new money” minted in this “forgiveness” business. The “money” has been paid out long ago as “loans.” Even without forgiveness, the repayment will be at best partial and will be spread over multiple years (perhaps well more than a decade), and whatever money used to repay the loans would just come from other parts of the overall economy anyway.
But if the comparison is for future appropriations of new funds between “helping students in America” and “fixing our immigration system,” that would be a different argument worth having.
at McDonald's.