Mar-a-Lago raided
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Mik said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Because it was unprecedented and because so many have tried to get him so many ways.
But your answer would have been the same if it hadn't been unprecedented!
Sorry, I've redd all the posts on this, and it's like y'all are bound and determined to believe what you need to believe, even if you have to corkscrew yourselves to do it. As if two seconds after news of the service emerged, the latest-maneuver-to-get-Trump theory was solidly in place.
I don't have a problem seeing it far more simply. NARA had reason to believe Trump had removed and retained documents he shouldn't have when he left office. They attempted to get them back without success, and being worried about the nature of the documents' contents, appealed to DOJ, who says "Where possible it is standard practice to seek less intrusive means as an alternative to a search," and when those means weren't successful they were left with no choice but the warrant.
IOW, it was Trump who initiated this whole thing by removing documents he shouldn't have. The feds petitioned him to return them without success, and were left with no choice but the search warrant, because they could not afford to leave documents of unknown content floating around unsecured. It seems like the feds gave him a lot of latitude in this, and he has persisted in not cooperating.
I admit I'm not confident in my understanding of this whole thing, but I just can't make it make sense that the warrant is an effort to "get" him. I don't see that Trump left them any choice.
I'm not beating a drum to champion any one line of reasoning. I'm just trying to understand what's going on.
No, you are wrong here. I'm not defending Trump in any way. I'm completely willing to withhold any judgement as to the correctness of the warrant until we see what specifically it was about. I suspect he brought it on himself, as he is wont to do.
My criticism is that the public has been kept in the dark and that he and his supporters could very predictably be counted on to gin up outrage and probably mistaken assumptions that improve his chances in 2024. It may in fact have been deliberate on his part to launch his campaign. All that could have been avoided by simply stating what they were after and why from the start.
"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@Mik said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
No, you are wrong here. I'm not defending Trump in any way. I'm completely willing to withhold any judgement as to the correctness of the warrant until we see what specifically it was about.
I'm very happy -- and unsurprised -- to hear that.
My criticism is that the public has been kept in the dark and that he and his supporters could very predictably be counted on to gin up outrage and probably mistaken assumptions that improve his chances in 2024. It may in fact have been deliberate on his part to launch his campaign. All that could have been avoided by simply stating what they were after and why from the start.
I can't answer this, because I don't know to what extent NARA (or whoever) did or didn't keep the public apprised. If it was all surreptitious, then boo hiss on them for playing into Trump's hands.
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"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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Can we all pause and appreciate how perfect of a news event this was for TNCR back and forth fodder?
I’ve been at the lake all week so I’m just checking in here and there. Can anyone catch me up? All I am aware of is Horace used a derogatory homo word and a horse collapsed in NYC. Anything else major?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Bias, much?
Might as well. It's not like I can get y'all to respond to my unbiased questions designed to sort out the facts. Quel boring, eh?
And an accusation of bias coming from you is hilarious.
I admit bias, you don't. Pretty simple, huh?
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Mik said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
No, you are wrong here. I'm not defending Trump in any way. I'm completely willing to withhold any judgement as to the correctness of the warrant until we see what specifically it was about.
I'm very happy -- and unsurprised -- to hear that.
My criticism is that the public has been kept in the dark and that he and his supporters could very predictably be counted on to gin up outrage and probably mistaken assumptions that improve his chances in 2024. It may in fact have been deliberate on his part to launch his campaign. All that could have been avoided by simply stating what they were after and why from the start.
I can't answer this, because I don't know to what extent NARA (or whoever) did or didn't keep the public apprised. If it was all surreptitious, then boo hiss on them for playing into Trump's hands.
Educate yourself.
At its base, this becomes a common Executive documents/National archive story. It happened with Obama, which is maybe why Trump tightened the law. Also happened with Clinton and with Bush.
Where this story deviates, hinges on two unassailable facts:
- The Trump hate that exists within a certain echelon of the Justice and certainly exits in the Whitehouse. And the hate Trump has for them. At least I know Trump has good reason.
This propelled the raid.
- The fact that this was a raid, no matter how the Left tries to spin it. So what, if a former POTUS is fighting a subpoena for records? The President has the right to declassify his documents and the fight may be whether the documents have been declassified.
Here this goes off the rails, is a nighttime raid by 30 agents, planned for when Trump was not at home. This could have easily been done by four agents in a van, during normal business hours. No need for the theater, except to send the message...The same message they sent at Stone's home, when they showed up with a SWAT team and a CNN news crew to arrest an elderly man who was not a flight risk.
As Will wrote - and he has a nice amount of Trump hate flowing through his veins - this simply is not done, if you wish to have a functioning society. These are the tactics of a banana republic and anybody who doesn't think the other side will retaliate in kind is a moron.
The gentleman who will most likely be the next Speaker, has already told Garland to keep all of his notes and communications and clear his calendar. I wouldn't be surprised if they impeach him (although that may be over the Border).
Y'all may enjoy the nightly histrionics on PMSNBC or CNN, but this ain't no way to run a country.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Link to PDF copy of the unsealed search warrant and property receipt:
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=22131380-trump-warrant-unsealed?responsive=1&ti
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Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Fishing expedition.
They already knew the boxes were there. They had already asked for a padlock to be installed on the storeroom door.
Trumps people are claiming that the FBI seized privileged attorney-client documents. If there were such a claim, DOJ should appoint a "special master" to determine what's privileged and what is not.
FBI - "Nope, not gonna happen."
The FBI seized boxes containing records covered by attorney-client privilege and potentially executive privilege during its raid of former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home, sources familiar with the investigation told Fox News, adding that the Justice Department opposed Trump lawyers' request for the appointment of an independent, special master to review the records.
Sources familiar with the investigation told Fox News Saturday that the former president’s team was informed that boxes labeled A-14, A-26, A-43, A-13, A-33, and a set of documents—all seen on the final page of the FBI’s property receipt —contained information covered by attorney-client privilege.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Watcha hiding there, Donny boy?
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Let’s wait. Six, two, and even the crime-fraud exception applies here.
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Is he fishing? There are documents out of federal custody that shouldn't be. The feds want them back.
If these are documents that do not belong to Trump once he has left office, then how would attorney-client privilege even apply?
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Is he fishing? There are documents out of federal custody that shouldn't be. The feds want them back.
Yeah, IF they belong in federal custody. That's the allegation by the DOJ.
At least he didn't smash them with a hammer. Only flushed them down a toilet (low-tech guy, you know).
If these are documents that do not belong to Trump once he has left office, then how would attorney-client privilege even apply?
Trump is claiming that OTHER documents, which belong under attorney-client privilege were seized. I don't know if that's true, of course, because Trump, but his demand for a special master is reasonable.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
