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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. White House Redefines Recession

White House Redefines Recession

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  • J jon-nyc
    26 Jul 2022, 01:20

    @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

    @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

    @Horace

    Heh. Maybe next time just retreat. It’s probably more dignified.

    We're not even arguing about anything specific. There's nothing to retreat from. Like you retreated when multiple people asked you to define your epithet "Trumpist". (Not for the first time.)

    Nice dodge. Not unnoticed though.

    I’ve defined that for you several times. The first time you came back with “well that’s not how most people define it”. After you Googled ‘autarky’. (For the record today I’d define it psychologically rather than based on policy).

    H Offline
    H Offline
    Horace
    wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 01:30 last edited by
    #34

    @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

    @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

    @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

    @Horace

    Heh. Maybe next time just retreat. It’s probably more dignified.

    We're not even arguing about anything specific. There's nothing to retreat from. Like you retreated when multiple people asked you to define your epithet "Trumpist". (Not for the first time.)

    Nice dodge. Not unnoticed though.

    Please specify what I "dodged".

    I’ve defined that for you several times. The first time you came back with “well that’s not how most people define it”. After you Googled ‘autarky’. (For the record today I’d define it psychologically rather than based on policy).

    I doubt I ever made a claim about how "most people" define "Trumpist". I have no clear idea how most people define it, other than the obvious definition of "Trump supporter". You make some handwavy attempt at distinguishing between someone who preferred him over Hillary, and a Trumpist. So a Trumpist is an "autarkist", that's nice. How does one distinguish an "autarkist"? The task before you, from which you retreated, and from which you will again retreat, was to lay out a set of beliefs such a person holds. I don't suspect many people go around laying claim to a belief in autarchy.

    Education is extremely important.

    J 1 Reply Last reply 26 Jul 2022, 01:35
    • H Horace
      26 Jul 2022, 01:30

      @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

      @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

      @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

      @Horace

      Heh. Maybe next time just retreat. It’s probably more dignified.

      We're not even arguing about anything specific. There's nothing to retreat from. Like you retreated when multiple people asked you to define your epithet "Trumpist". (Not for the first time.)

      Nice dodge. Not unnoticed though.

      Please specify what I "dodged".

      I’ve defined that for you several times. The first time you came back with “well that’s not how most people define it”. After you Googled ‘autarky’. (For the record today I’d define it psychologically rather than based on policy).

      I doubt I ever made a claim about how "most people" define "Trumpist". I have no clear idea how most people define it, other than the obvious definition of "Trump supporter". You make some handwavy attempt at distinguishing between someone who preferred him over Hillary, and a Trumpist. So a Trumpist is an "autarkist", that's nice. How does one distinguish an "autarkist"? The task before you, from which you retreated, and from which you will again retreat, was to lay out a set of beliefs such a person holds. I don't suspect many people go around laying claim to a belief in autarchy.

      J Offline
      J Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 01:35 last edited by jon-nyc
      #35

      @Horace

      And you would be wrong.

      https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

      Again, though, today I would define Magatry more (though not exclusively) in psychological terms.

      Thank you for your attention to this matter.

      H 2 Replies Last reply 26 Jul 2022, 01:37
      • J jon-nyc
        26 Jul 2022, 01:35

        @Horace

        And you would be wrong.

        https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

        Again, though, today I would define Magatry more (though not exclusively) in psychological terms.

        H Offline
        H Offline
        Horace
        wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 01:37 last edited by
        #36

        @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

        @Horace

        And you would be wrong.

        https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

        I can't access that board anymore.

        You can search for this post, but you can't specify what I dodged? Are you not participating in this discussion in good faith? That would be shocking.

        Education is extremely important.

        H 1 Reply Last reply 26 Jul 2022, 01:45
        • J jon-nyc
          26 Jul 2022, 01:35

          @Horace

          And you would be wrong.

          https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

          Again, though, today I would define Magatry more (though not exclusively) in psychological terms.

          H Offline
          H Offline
          Horace
          wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 01:39 last edited by
          #37

          @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

          Again, though, today I would define Magatry more (though not exclusively) in psychological terms.

          What would those psychological terms be? Is Magatry synonymous with Trumpism?

          Obviously we are only discussing your personal definitions, since "common" definitions of these terms do not exist, except in tribes, and only then as base insults.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • H Horace
            26 Jul 2022, 01:37

            @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

            @Horace

            And you would be wrong.

            https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

            I can't access that board anymore.

            You can search for this post, but you can't specify what I dodged? Are you not participating in this discussion in good faith? That would be shocking.

            H Offline
            H Offline
            Horace
            wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 01:45 last edited by
            #38

            @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

            @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

            @Horace

            And you would be wrong.

            https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/why-would-a-liberal-vote-for-trump-t117744.html#p1491653

            I can't access that board anymore.

            You can search for this post, but you can't specify what I dodged? Are you not participating in this discussion in good faith? That would be shocking.

            I was able to log in. Yes, we had a good discussion, at least from my side. You didn't understand my points then, and you won't now, though. I made several good ones.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • G Offline
              G Offline
              George K
              wrote on 26 Jul 2022, 21:04 last edited by
              #39

              Someone should have told Reuters...

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • J jon-nyc
                26 Jul 2022, 00:44

                @George-K

                He has half a point. I very much remember the press sticking with the two quarter definition when both Bush administrations made the identical argument Biden is now.

                What he’s missing, of course, is any commentary as to whether the right wing press went along with the GOP administration arguments at the time (hint: they did).

                Does Mr Erickson think the RW press became propagandists in 90 and again in 2001? He’s oddly silent on that point.

                J Offline
                J Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 00:24 last edited by
                #40

                @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

                @George-K

                He has half a point. I very much remember the press sticking with the two quarter definition when both Bush administrations made the identical argument Biden is now.

                George - it’s nice that Reuters is being consistent.

                Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                G 1 Reply Last reply 27 Jul 2022, 00:35
                • J jon-nyc
                  27 Jul 2022, 00:24

                  @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

                  @George-K

                  He has half a point. I very much remember the press sticking with the two quarter definition when both Bush administrations made the identical argument Biden is now.

                  George - it’s nice that Reuters is being consistent.

                  G Offline
                  G Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 00:35 last edited by
                  #41

                  @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

                  @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

                  @George-K

                  He has half a point. I very much remember the press sticking with the two quarter definition when both Bush administrations made the identical argument Biden is now.

                  George - it’s nice that Reuters is being consistent.

                  With no sense of what they said two years ago....

                  No, we're not in a recession, Biden administration tells U.S. voters

                  The U.S. economy is plagued by inflation and suffering from fallout from Russia's war in Ukraine - but it's not in recession. That's the message from White House officials.

                  Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, economic adviser Brian Deese and Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo have spoken out in recent days ahead of data on Thursday that may show that gross domestic product (GDP) shrank from April to June. The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta’s GDP forecast suggests a 1.6% decline. That would mark the second quarter of GDP decline in a row.

                  While a broad rule of thumb holds that two consecutive quarters of GDP drops signal a recession, the strong U.S. job market means this may be the rare moment when that is not enough for economists to declare the world’s largest economy in recession.

                  The White House pushback against recession talk is about more than semantics. Talking about recession can become a self-fulfilling prophecy as businesses and consumers, concerned that tougher times are ahead, cut back on spending and investment plans.

                  Semantics didn't apply to Japan, apparently.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 02:56 last edited by
                    #42

                    One story was written by Reuters US, one by Reuters Japan. Could simply be that Japan (like, say, the UK) defines it as 2Q negative GDP growth.

                    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                    G 1 Reply Last reply 27 Jul 2022, 16:52
                    • J jon-nyc
                      27 Jul 2022, 02:56

                      One story was written by Reuters US, one by Reuters Japan. Could simply be that Japan (like, say, the UK) defines it as 2Q negative GDP growth.

                      G Offline
                      G Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 16:52 last edited by
                      #43

                      @jon-nyc said in White House Redefines Recession:

                      One story was written by Reuters US, one by Reuters Japan. Could simply be that Japan (like, say, the UK) defines it as 2Q negative GDP growth.

                      Fair enough.

                      So, let's stay with one reporter. The economics reporter for Politico, Ben White:

                      FYrzmxnXEAAxbxx.jpeg

                      FYrzn9AXEAIDpAW.png

                      FYrzqWWXgAIkr96.jpeg

                      "IOW, ignore what I said two years ago, it's 'vexing'."

                      My point is simple. You're right in that what defines a recession is more complex than simply two bad quarters, according to NEBR. Why haven't I been told that, until now?

                      Either Ben White is ignorant about what a recession is, or he was ignorant about what a recession is. In either case, how is it that he does economics for Politico?

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • H Offline
                        H Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 17:19 last edited by
                        #44

                        It would probably seem parsimonious to most people that verbal framing to support a political side is something people do, when they care about political sides. Reality, meet observer. Observer, meet reality.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Offline
                          J Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 17:30 last edited by
                          #45

                          https://morningconsult.com/2022/07/13/recession-outlook-us-economy-data/

                          If perception is reality in politics, 65% of Americans do not agree with the Resident or Jon.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • H Offline
                            H Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 19:20 last edited by
                            #46

                            .75 percent rate hike. Never gonna sell my home now. Darn this inflation! Biden has made me prisoner in my own home.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • H Offline
                              H Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on 27 Jul 2022, 19:47 last edited by
                              #47

                              Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              T 1 Reply Last reply 28 Jul 2022, 01:51
                              • H Horace
                                27 Jul 2022, 19:47

                                Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                T Offline
                                T Offline
                                taiwan_girl
                                wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 01:51 last edited by
                                #48

                                @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                Today's increase in the US stock market was 100% due to President Biden. Tomorrows crash is due to things beyond his control. 555

                                G H T 3 Replies Last reply 28 Jul 2022, 01:58
                                • T taiwan_girl
                                  28 Jul 2022, 01:51

                                  @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                  Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                  Today's increase in the US stock market was 100% due to President Biden. Tomorrows crash is due to things beyond his control. 555

                                  G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 01:58 last edited by
                                  #49

                                  @taiwan_girl perfect.

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • T taiwan_girl
                                    28 Jul 2022, 01:51

                                    @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                    Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                    Today's increase in the US stock market was 100% due to President Biden. Tomorrows crash is due to things beyond his control. 555

                                    H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 03:27 last edited by
                                    #50

                                    @taiwan_girl said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                    @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                    Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                    Today's increase in the US stock market was 100% due to President Biden. Tomorrows crash is due to things beyond his control. 555

                                    58008

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    T 1 Reply Last reply 28 Jul 2022, 12:59
                                    • H Horace
                                      28 Jul 2022, 03:27

                                      @taiwan_girl said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                      @Horace said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                      Huge pop in the stock market after the hike. Let’s see how the market reacts tomorrow. If memory serves, the previous hike was received by immediate enthusiasm in stocks, followed by a crash the next day.

                                      Today's increase in the US stock market was 100% due to President Biden. Tomorrows crash is due to things beyond his control. 555

                                      58008

                                      T Offline
                                      T Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 12:59 last edited by
                                      #51

                                      @Horace ???

                                      H 1 Reply Last reply 28 Jul 2022, 14:04
                                      • L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 13:54 last edited by
                                        #52

                                        CNBC

                                        GDP fell 0.9% in the second quarter, the second straight decline and a strong recession signal

                                        CNN

                                        US economy contracts again, fueling recession fears

                                        FOX

                                        US economy enters technical recession after growth tumbles 0.9% in the second quarter

                                        NPR (lol)

                                        U.S. economy just had a 2nd quarter of negative growth. Is it in a recession?

                                        Newsweek (lol again)

                                        U.S. GDP Update Live: Economy Enters Recession Under Biden

                                        The Brad

                                        J 1 Reply Last reply 28 Jul 2022, 14:09
                                        • T taiwan_girl
                                          28 Jul 2022, 12:59

                                          @Horace ???

                                          H Offline
                                          H Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on 28 Jul 2022, 14:04 last edited by
                                          #53

                                          @taiwan_girl said in White House Redefines Recession:

                                          @Horace ???

                                          It’s my prediction for the nasdaq after a competent president is at the helm.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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