Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade

[Jolly]

@xenon said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Seems like a form of public suicide + as Aqua mentioned yesterday, social contagion.

I think much, much, much stronger gun control could curb this around the edges - but it won't make the problem go away.

The underlying problem is probably the same as what's driving suicide rates up - isolation and loneliness.

In a personal respect, the internet or multi-player role games are not real. I don't think they can cure lonliness.

[Mik]

Indeed. Distraction is not equal to interaction.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

I only could stand about 4 minutes of it, but Carlson went on a rant blaming Prozac and other SSRIs.

Yeah, there isn't a single topic in the world that guy isn't a fucking expert on.

Yeah, but sometimes he's right.

Is he right about the drugs?

I have no idea, and I probably know as much as he does about these drugs. Actually, a little more, as I do have personal experience with them.

Why should I listen to Tucker Carlson any more than I should listen to, say, some loudmouth guy down the shops?

Because he talks to few million more people than the guy down at the shops and he has hordes fact-checking every word out of his mouth.

And to put it very bluntly, if you don't think we have a problem medicating children at the rate we are now, you are simply not aware of the problem or are choosing to willfully ignore it.

I think that the over-medication problem is a fact. The question is whether it is a contributing factor to mass shootings.

Lashing out at things we don't like and blaming them for mass shootings seems to be a thing now.

Maybe mass-shootings are caused by opinionated gob-shites talking incessantly about how awful the world is on 24 hour news channels?

I somehow doubt that Tucker will run with that one.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

I only could stand about 4 minutes of it, but Carlson went on a rant blaming Prozac and other SSRIs.

Yeah, there isn't a single topic in the world that guy isn't a fucking expert on.

Yeah, but sometimes he's right.

Is he right about the drugs?

I have no idea, and I probably know as much as he does about these drugs. Actually, a little more, as I do have personal experience with them.

Why should I listen to Tucker Carlson any more than I should listen to, say, some loudmouth guy down the shops?

Because he talks to few million more people than the guy down at the shops and he has hordes fact-checking every word out of his mouth.

And to put it very bluntly, if you don't think we have a problem medicating children at the rate we are now, you are simply not aware of the problem or are choosing to willfully ignore it.

I think that the over-medication problem is a fact. The question is whether it is a contributing factor to mass shootings.

Lashing out at things we don't like and blaming them for mass shootings seems to be a thing now.

Maybe mass-shootings are caused by opinionated gob-shites talking incessantly about how awful the world is on 24 hour news channels?

I somehow doubt that Tucker will run with that one.

You're not a serious man, are you? You're so fixated on what you don't like, you won't consider what is happening right under your own nose.

There are some school districts that are medicating almost 2 out of every 10 boys in the classroom.

Tucker aside, you find no problem with that? And you don't think that much psychological intervention at elementary school levels, doesn't have deleterious consequences?

[George K]

"I confess."

The man accused of killing seven people attending a parade in Highland Park, Illinois, on the Fourth of July has confessed to his role in the massacre, a prosecutor said Wednesday.

Robert “Bobby” E. Crimo III, 21, made his confession in a voluntary statement, according to officials. He has been charged with seven counts of first-degree murder and will likely face more counts over the dozens injured during Monday's attack, the prosecutor announced.

"He went into details about what he had done," Lake County State’s Attorney Eric Rinehart told reporters outside of the county courthouse. "He admitted to what he had done. We don't want to speculate on motives right now."

Police also revealed that after the shooting, Crimo had considered carrying out another attack at a celebration in Madison, Wisconsin. Crimo arrived at the event in Wisconsin but indications are that he had not put in enough thought and research to conduct the attack, Deputy Chief Christopher Covelli said. Crimo ditched his phone while in the Madison area, which was recovered by the FBI on Tuesday, Covelli said.

Crimo's arraignment will likely be in August, and he will be represented in court by the public defender's office, Rinehart said. "Many more charges" will be brought against Crimo, and for every person hurt in the attack, an attempted murder charge and an aggravated battery with a firearm charge will be brought against him, Rinehart said.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

You're not a serious man, are you? You're so fixated on what you don't like, you won't consider what is happening right under your own nose.

There are some school districts that are medicating almost 2 out of every 10 boys in the classroom.

Tucker aside, you find no problem with that? And you don't think that much psychological intervention at elementary school levels, doesn't have deleterious consequences?

There are many problems facing us all, and I would discuss them seriously if I thought it was worthwhile. As I said, I have personal experience of ADHD and its treatment. I'm sure you're right that Ritalin is over-prescribed, but it can also be very helpful with quite serious problems, and the generalization of kids being doped up to the eyeballs isn't an accurate description of my own experience.

Tucker isn't really helping with his ranting. Tom Cruise goes on a lot about over-medication, too.

[Catseye3]

@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

The man accused of killing seven people attending a parade in Highland Park, Illinois, on the Fourth of July has confessed to his role in the massacre

I'm surprised to see this. I'd have thought his public defender would have discouraged it as harmful to his interests at trial.

[George K]

@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

I'm surprised to see this. I'd have thought his public defender would have discouraged it as harmful to his interests at trial.

Me too. Perhaps he thinks he'll get a more lenient sentence if he pleads guilty. OTOH, he's facing 7 counts of first-degree murder, and there's no death penalty in Illinois, so...

But I've also heard that there's a possibility of him being charged with federal crimes (terrorism), and the death penalty is on the table.

[taiwan_girl]

Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.

Requirements to own a gun in Japan

• go to an all day class

• pass a written test on guns

• achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range

• mental health evaluation at hospital

• background check with includes interviews with family and friends

• every three years, repeat

• each county can have a maximum of three gun shops

• to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one

• when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in

[Catseye3]

@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Requirements to own a gun in Japan

Probably the restriction on number of gun shops per county would cause a dustup here, but I see no reason to not adopt the other requirements.

Thanks for posting them, TG.

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.

Requirements to own a gun in Japan

• go to an all day class

• pass a written test on guns

• achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range

• mental health evaluation at hospital

• background check with includes interviews with family and friends

• every three years, repeat

• each county can have a maximum of three gun shops

• to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one

• when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in

Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.

As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.

Requirements to own a gun in Japan

• go to an all day class

• pass a written test on guns

• achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range

• mental health evaluation at hospital

• background check with includes interviews with family and friends

• every three years, repeat

• each county can have a maximum of three gun shops

• to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one

• when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in

Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.

As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.

So, we get to give up our computer games, medication, our Sunday mornings taking the bloody kids to church, stop watching exciting movies, spend less time on the internet.....

And gun owners sacrifice what, exactly?

[Catseye3]

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Shall not be infringed.

I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words, their pens practically gouging the surface: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.

But times change. Conditions change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.

There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.

[Catseye3]

And furthermore, to cavil at mental health screenings as a necessity to gun ownership is fucking nuts.

[Jolly]

@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

Shall not be infringed.

I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.

But times change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.

There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.

It's in the Constitution.

If you wish to alter it, there is a mechanism.

[Catseye3]

@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

It's in the Constitution.
If you wish to alter it, there is a mechanism.

For christ sake, isn't that what I've been saying???

And yeah, there is a mechanism, which I have the feeling you and yours will fight tooth and claw every step of the way. So spare me your disingenuity.

[Jolly]

Yes'm.

Wasn't any prevarication on my part. Thought that was succinct.

And true.

[Mik]

No, Jolly echoes my sentiments. It says what it says. if you don't like it, there's a mechanism to change it if that is what 38 states want. But you simply cannot do it by fiat.

Difficult you say? Certainly. Intentionally so. That is the genius of the Constitution.

[Catseye3]

@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

It says what it says.

What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.

The writing is on the wall.

[George K]

@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:

But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment

How, exactly, will that happen?