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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. A bad day for Trump

A bad day for Trump

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  • George KG George K

    @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

    That's hearsay. What person in their right mind wants hearsay, possible even third or fourth hand hearsay given in a committee of supposedly this much importance. It's not important, son. It's a political sideshow.

    This is not a trial. This is theater. In a trial, there are rules of evidence (which would bar this type of testimony) and in a trial you have the right to cross-examine.

    Also, Rep. Cheney, at the end of one statement played the video (audio?) of Trump saying, something to the effect of "Now let's go to the Capitol..." and the audio was cut before the word "peacefully" was out.

    After all the caterwauling about "deceptively edited videos," you'd think the committee would have the honesty to at least not do that.

    HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

    @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

    That's hearsay. What person in their right mind wants hearsay, possible even third or fourth hand hearsay given in a committee of supposedly this much importance. It's not important, son. It's a political sideshow.

    This is not a trial. This is theater. In a trial, there are rules of evidence (which would bar this type of testimony) and in a trial you have the right to cross-examine.

    Also, Rep. Cheney, at the end of one statement played the video (audio?) of Trump saying, something to the effect of "Now let's go to the Capitol..." and the audio was cut before the word "peacefully" was out.

    After all the caterwauling about "deceptively edited videos," you'd think the committee would have the honesty to at least not do that.

    Nice to get more evidence that Cheney is just another dime a dozen, principle-free, opportunist. It so happens that the Trump era has enticed lots of principle-free opportunists to jump on that bandwagon where they shout at the top of their lungs about their principles and how Trump violates them.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #30

      What's hilarious, is that Cheney approved of the RvW SCOTUS decision. Her Dem buddies quit singing her praises long enough to damn her to Hell.

      Useful idiot, indeed...

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by George K
        #31

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by Mik
          #32

          The comments after remind me so much of 'Russia Russia Russia!'.

          Had they just kept their powder dry and not tried to impeach him before he was even in office and then every day thereafter, they might could have gotten him.

          But fool me once......

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Horace

            @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

            Deeply unsettling. Ax, how do you feel about this allegation?

            AxtremusA Away
            AxtremusA Away
            Axtremus
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            @Horace said in A bad day for Trump:

            @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

            Deeply unsettling. Ax, how do you feel about this allegation?

            Fake news. I feel bad about you being taken in by it.

            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • AxtremusA Axtremus

              @Horace said in A bad day for Trump:

              @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

              Deeply unsettling. Ax, how do you feel about this allegation?

              Fake news. I feel bad about you being taken in by it.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #34

              @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

              @Horace said in A bad day for Trump:

              @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

              Deeply unsettling. Ax, how do you feel about this allegation?

              Fake news. I feel bad about you being taken in by it.

              I'm sorry to have made you feel badly. I feel badly about making you feel badly.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Away
                AxtremusA Away
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                JollyJ George KG 2 Replies Last reply
                • AxtremusA Axtremus

                  This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                  It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                  JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                  This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                  It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                  My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                  Now, I figure if the woman would lie about something as easily discernable as people fighting over a steering wheel, the truth ain't in her.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  George KG AxtremusA jon-nycJ 3 Replies Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                    This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                    It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                    My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                    Now, I figure if the woman would lie about something as easily discernable as people fighting over a steering wheel, the truth ain't in her.

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by George K
                    #37

                    @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

                    My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                    As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                      This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                      It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                      This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                      It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                      Paywall...

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #39

                        Secret Service Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato.

                        This is <checks notes> hearsay, of course, but if it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for TNCR, right?

                        A source close to former Trump Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Tony Ornato says he did not brief Jan. 6 Committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson on one of the major allegation she made to the committee Tuesday.

                        Hutchinson, a former top aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified to lawmakers Tuesday that Ornato told her former President Donald Trump repeatedly demanded that the Secret Service take him to the Capitol on January 6. Ornato further told Hutchinson, according to her, that Trump lunged at a Secret Service agent and tried to grab the wheel of a presidential SUV when agents would not allow that.

                        However, a source close to Ornato told Fox News that Ornato watched the hearing yesterday and was shocked when Cassidy made the allegation about the steering wheel.

                        Both Bobby Engel, the top agent on Trump's Secret Service detail who was in the car, and Ornato, who was not in the car, testified to the January 6 Committee in private over the past year, the source close to Ornato said.

                        Engel and Ornato never brought up part about steering wheel, according to that source. Both want to testify on the record again and refute the part about Trump grabbing or trying to grab the wheel. The driver of the SUV, who is unnamed, will also cooperate with the committee.

                        A source close to the USSS says Hutchinson was truthful when she said that Trump was furious inside the SUV. Trump did want to go to the Capitol on January 6 and was yelling and shouting. However, the steering wheel part is false, per this source.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          I bet Hillary never yelled and shouted when she lost.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG George K

                            Secret Service Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato.

                            This is <checks notes> hearsay, of course, but if it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for TNCR, right?

                            A source close to former Trump Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Tony Ornato says he did not brief Jan. 6 Committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson on one of the major allegation she made to the committee Tuesday.

                            Hutchinson, a former top aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified to lawmakers Tuesday that Ornato told her former President Donald Trump repeatedly demanded that the Secret Service take him to the Capitol on January 6. Ornato further told Hutchinson, according to her, that Trump lunged at a Secret Service agent and tried to grab the wheel of a presidential SUV when agents would not allow that.

                            However, a source close to Ornato told Fox News that Ornato watched the hearing yesterday and was shocked when Cassidy made the allegation about the steering wheel.

                            Both Bobby Engel, the top agent on Trump's Secret Service detail who was in the car, and Ornato, who was not in the car, testified to the January 6 Committee in private over the past year, the source close to Ornato said.

                            Engel and Ornato never brought up part about steering wheel, according to that source. Both want to testify on the record again and refute the part about Trump grabbing or trying to grab the wheel. The driver of the SUV, who is unnamed, will also cooperate with the committee.

                            A source close to the USSS says Hutchinson was truthful when she said that Trump was furious inside the SUV. Trump did want to go to the Capitol on January 6 and was yelling and shouting. However, the steering wheel part is false, per this source.

                            JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                            Secret Service Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato.

                            This is <checks notes> hearsay, of course, but if it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for TNCR, right?

                            A source close to former Trump Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Tony Ornato says he did not brief Jan. 6 Committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson on one of the major allegation she made to the committee Tuesday.

                            Hutchinson, a former top aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified to lawmakers Tuesday that Ornato told her former President Donald Trump repeatedly demanded that the Secret Service take him to the Capitol on January 6. Ornato further told Hutchinson, according to her, that Trump lunged at a Secret Service agent and tried to grab the wheel of a presidential SUV when agents would not allow that.

                            However, a source close to Ornato told Fox News that Ornato watched the hearing yesterday and was shocked when Cassidy made the allegation about the steering wheel.

                            Both Bobby Engel, the top agent on Trump's Secret Service detail who was in the car, and Ornato, who was not in the car, testified to the January 6 Committee in private over the past year, the source close to Ornato said.

                            Engel and Ornato never brought up part about steering wheel, according to that source. Both want to testify on the record again and refute the part about Trump grabbing or trying to grab the wheel. The driver of the SUV, who is unnamed, will also cooperate with the committee.

                            A source close to the USSS says Hutchinson was truthful when she said that Trump was furious inside the SUV. Trump did want to go to the Capitol on January 6 and was yelling and shouting. However, the steering wheel part is false, per this source.

                            What lawyer ( and most of those idiots are lawyers) would not verify hearsay with a primary source?

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG George K

                              @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                              This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                              https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                              It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                              Paywall...

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #42

                              @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                              @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                              This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                              https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                              It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                              Paywall...

                              I feel badly that Ax has more subscriptions than I do. That’s two times Ax has made me feel badly. I only made him feel badly once.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Jolly

                                @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                Secret Service Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato.

                                This is <checks notes> hearsay, of course, but if it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for TNCR, right?

                                A source close to former Trump Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Tony Ornato says he did not brief Jan. 6 Committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson on one of the major allegation she made to the committee Tuesday.

                                Hutchinson, a former top aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified to lawmakers Tuesday that Ornato told her former President Donald Trump repeatedly demanded that the Secret Service take him to the Capitol on January 6. Ornato further told Hutchinson, according to her, that Trump lunged at a Secret Service agent and tried to grab the wheel of a presidential SUV when agents would not allow that.

                                However, a source close to Ornato told Fox News that Ornato watched the hearing yesterday and was shocked when Cassidy made the allegation about the steering wheel.

                                Both Bobby Engel, the top agent on Trump's Secret Service detail who was in the car, and Ornato, who was not in the car, testified to the January 6 Committee in private over the past year, the source close to Ornato said.

                                Engel and Ornato never brought up part about steering wheel, according to that source. Both want to testify on the record again and refute the part about Trump grabbing or trying to grab the wheel. The driver of the SUV, who is unnamed, will also cooperate with the committee.

                                A source close to the USSS says Hutchinson was truthful when she said that Trump was furious inside the SUV. Trump did want to go to the Capitol on January 6 and was yelling and shouting. However, the steering wheel part is false, per this source.

                                What lawyer ( and most of those idiots are lawyers) would not verify hearsay with a primary source?

                                AxtremusA Away
                                AxtremusA Away
                                Axtremus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

                                @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                Secret Service Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato.
                                …

                                This is <checks notes> hearsay, of course, but if it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for TNCR, right?

                                Hearsay under oath ≠ hearsay not under oath.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Jolly

                                  @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                                  This article breaks down various parts of Hutchinson's testimony, carefully classifying for which parts she testified as a direct witness and for which other parts she provided second hand recounting ("hearsay"), and calling out the significance of each:

                                  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/29/cassidy-hutchinsons-bombshell-donald-trump/7767294001/

                                  It turns out for the most part she was a direct witness to events recounted in her testimony; only on the "Trump tried to grab the steering wheel" part did she recounted the event second hand.

                                  My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                                  Now, I figure if the woman would lie about something as easily discernable as people fighting over a steering wheel, the truth ain't in her.

                                  AxtremusA Away
                                  AxtremusA Away
                                  Axtremus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

                                  My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                                  How often does Uncle Henry think Trump is lying?

                                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • CopperC Online
                                    CopperC Online
                                    Copper
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #45

                                    A bad day for Mr. Trump

                                    would be a good day for almost anyone else.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG George K

                                      @Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:

                                      My old Uncle Henry used to say, If a person will lie about one thing, they'll lie about something else.

                                      As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                      AxtremusA Away
                                      AxtremusA Away
                                      Axtremus
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #46

                                      @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                      As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                      1. Has it been established that there is a falsehood in Hutchinson’s testimony?

                                      2. Is the aforementioned legal principle applicable here? Think of it this way: every one lies about something at some points in their lives, a strict universal application of that principle would disqualify every testimony. Yet we live in the world where many testimonies have been accepted. So clearly that principle is only applied under some conditions but not others.

                                      George KG JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                      • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                        @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                        As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                        1. Has it been established that there is a falsehood in Hutchinson’s testimony?

                                        2. Is the aforementioned legal principle applicable here? Think of it this way: every one lies about something at some points in their lives, a strict universal application of that principle would disqualify every testimony. Yet we live in the world where many testimonies have been accepted. So clearly that principle is only applied under some conditions but not others.

                                        George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #47

                                        @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                                        @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                        As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                        1. Has it been established that there is a falsehood in Hutchinson’s testimony?

                                        No, not specifically. However, there are two things that come into play.

                                        1. She was inconsistent in her use of "The Beast" vs a Secret Service SUV. Which was it? Were you confused? Was the person who told you this confused? In either case, why should she be believed if she can't get her story straight as to where it happened, as told by a third party.

                                        2. If her testimony can be countered by people who were there (i.e. the Secret Service agents), why believe anything else she said?

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG George K

                                          @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                                          @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                          As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                          1. Has it been established that there is a falsehood in Hutchinson’s testimony?

                                          No, not specifically. However, there are two things that come into play.

                                          1. She was inconsistent in her use of "The Beast" vs a Secret Service SUV. Which was it? Were you confused? Was the person who told you this confused? In either case, why should she be believed if she can't get her story straight as to where it happened, as told by a third party.

                                          2. If her testimony can be countered by people who were there (i.e. the Secret Service agents), why believe anything else she said?

                                          AxtremusA Away
                                          AxtremusA Away
                                          Axtremus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                          @Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:

                                          @George-K said in A bad day for Trump:

                                          As I said above, a legal principle is "Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."

                                          1. Has it been established that there is a falsehood in Hutchinson’s testimony?

                                          No, not specifically.

                                          OK, I will just wait until a falsehood has been established (if that ever happens) before going further with this line of inquiry.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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