A bad day for Trump
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 03:44 last edited by
Love how everyone is going to their respecting boxing corners. Only flipped if it were Obama not Trump we’re talking about. Anyway…none of these allegations (under oath) surprise me but we need harder evidence to do anything about it. Will Trump testify under oath? That is the real question.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 03:45 last edited by
The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
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The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 03:46 last edited by@Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:
The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
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@Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:
The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 04:16 last edited by@89th said in A bad day for Trump:
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
The two are not equally credible. One testifies under oath, the other does not.
You should give more credence to the one testifying under oath. And that’s even before considering the other’s well documented records of lying,
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 04:28 last edited by
I believe the anecdote in question was hearsay. The under oath testimony was that she heard about it second hand. She is almost certainly telling the truth about hearing about this thing. According to the story Jolly posted, those in a position to testify about what actually happened, first hand, are willing to testify that the hearsay is fiction. If that happens, I will be satisfied that the story got invented or sensationalized. But YMMV.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 05:05 last edited by xenon
At worst, he tried to grab for a steering wheel and slapped around a secret service agent a bit.
Doesn’t really register for me on the Trump shock-o-meter.
Agreed that the story was probably told to the lady under oath, but got exaggerated along the way.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 10:08 last edited by
@George-K said in A bad day for Trump:
Oh, and it's Mulvaney saying this....
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Seems like he was once President Trumps "inner circle". Since he turned against him, he is no longer credible?
Add him to the list of other: Mattis, Barr, etc etc
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@89th said in A bad day for Trump:
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
The two are not equally credible. One testifies under oath, the other does not.
You should give more credence to the one testifying under oath. And that’s even before considering the other’s well documented records of lying,
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 11:21 last edited by George K@Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:
The two are not equally credible. One testifies under oath, the other does not.
Yes, and that's why, in a real court, such testimony would not be permitted. It is hearsay. She did not witness it. She was told it happened. Full Stop.
You should give more credence to the one testifying under oath.
And the director of the Secret Service, and the driver of "The Beast" are willing to do so, under oath. Would you care to speculate why they were not called?
And that’s even before considering the other’s well documented records of lying,
If only there were a thread about presidential lies....
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 11:57 last edited by
The Secret Service has gone on record saying the "grabbing the steering wheel" thing did not happen, and the woman who testified has been shown to lie.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 12:10 last edited by
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 12:15 last edited by
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 12:37 last edited by
@George-K said in A bad day for Trump:
Depose the attorney. In a rational world, that's what would happen.
The attorney Eric Herschmann has testified before, maybe he will testify again. There is a physical piece of evidence with handwriting, confirming whose handwriting it is shouldn't be that hard. It stretches credulity to think that Hutchinson (or anyone in like circumstance) would testify that it's her handwriting on the note card and handed that piece of evidence to the committee if that's not her handwriting.
From the article linked by the tweet:
The Jan. 6 committee has repeatedly relied on Herschmann's candid and sometimes vulgar testimony throughout the hearings in June, including when the former White House lawyer testified that he shot down former Trump Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark's plan to overturn the 2020 election.
In any event, Herschmann does not dispute the statement on the note card, just that he thought he's the one who wrote it. Since according to Hutchinson the statement was dictated by Maedows, it is possible that more than one people we're taking notes at the time and both Hutchinson and Herschmann wrote down the same statement.
At this point, Hutchinson has provided physical evidence, Herschmann has not. Maybe he will, and we can evaluate that when Herschmann provides physical evidence too.
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@George-K said in A bad day for Trump:
Depose the attorney. In a rational world, that's what would happen.
The attorney Eric Herschmann has testified before, maybe he will testify again. There is a physical piece of evidence with handwriting, confirming whose handwriting it is shouldn't be that hard. It stretches credulity to think that Hutchinson (or anyone in like circumstance) would testify that it's her handwriting on the note card and handed that piece of evidence to the committee if that's not her handwriting.
From the article linked by the tweet:
The Jan. 6 committee has repeatedly relied on Herschmann's candid and sometimes vulgar testimony throughout the hearings in June, including when the former White House lawyer testified that he shot down former Trump Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark's plan to overturn the 2020 election.
In any event, Herschmann does not dispute the statement on the note card, just that he thought he's the one who wrote it. Since according to Hutchinson the statement was dictated by Maedows, it is possible that more than one people we're taking notes at the time and both Hutchinson and Herschmann wrote down the same statement.
At this point, Hutchinson has provided physical evidence, Herschmann has not. Maybe he will, and we can evaluate that when Herschmann provides physical evidence too.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 12:44 last edited by George K@Axtremus said in A bad day for Trump:
In any event, Herschmann does not dispute the statement on the note card, just that he thought he's the one who wrote it.
In any event, someone is not telling the truth.
Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus.
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It wouldn’t be the first time he was lied about, now would it. It doesn’t really make sense anyway.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 13:01 last edited by@Mik said in A bad day for Trump:
It doesn’t really make sense anyway.
[Nodding.] From reading based solely on this thread, some of these accusations seem, ah, farfetched. I have no brief for Trump, but I don't see him grabbing the steering wheel and certainly not giving a weapon to anybody -- where would he get it, for one thing -- if only because he wouldn't jeopardize his own interests that overtly. His instincts are acute in that regard.
I sure can see how the unintelligent mind could dream up such stuff, though. Which is pretty grotesque.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 15:01 last edited by
@George-K said in A bad day for Trump:
Deeply unsettling. Ax, how do you feel about this allegation?
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wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 15:22 last edited by
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
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Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 15:31 last edited by@Larry said in A bad day for Trump:
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
Ok, I'll bite:
One: If it was the Presidential SUV, there is no barrier between the backseat and the front seat.
Two: The Secret Service hasn't testified to that under oath.
Three: Not sure how her testimony makes her a liar. I believe she told the truth about what she heard. Now, whether what she heard was accurate is a different question, as others like @George-K have pointed out.
Four: I'm not sure he was trying to send armed insurgents to the Capitol, but as said before, all of this is hearsay anyway so until there is better proof of his comments (this and others), this is all just vapor testimony, IMO.
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@Larry said in A bad day for Trump:
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
Ok, I'll bite:
One: If it was the Presidential SUV, there is no barrier between the backseat and the front seat.
Two: The Secret Service hasn't testified to that under oath.
Three: Not sure how her testimony makes her a liar. I believe she told the truth about what she heard. Now, whether what she heard was accurate is a different question, as others like @George-K have pointed out.
Four: I'm not sure he was trying to send armed insurgents to the Capitol, but as said before, all of this is hearsay anyway so until there is better proof of his comments (this and others), this is all just vapor testimony, IMO.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 15:56 last edited by@89th said in A bad day for Trump:
@Larry said in A bad day for Trump:
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
Ok, I'll bite:
One: If it was the Presidential SUV, there is no barrier between the backseat and the front seat.
Two: The Secret Service hasn't testified to that under oath.
Three: Not sure how her testimony makes her a liar. I believe she told the truth about what she heard. Now, whether what she heard was accurate is a different question, as others like @George-K have pointed out.
Four: I'm not sure he was trying to send armed insurgents to the Capitol, but as said before, all of this is hearsay anyway so until there is better proof of his comments (this and others), this is all just vapor testimony, IMO.
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Limo or presidential SUV either one, it's not just a barrier that makes it impossible, it the distance. Lest you bounce back with another stupid notion to justify your hate, try doing it in a normal SUV. Can't be done.
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Oh wow,..... what a POWERFUL argument....
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Hee testimony makes her a liar because she made a claim that has been denied, is impossible to do in the first place, and only a gullible fool can't see that.
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That he tried to send the National Guard is not hearsay. That he tried to send armed insurgents IS hearsay. But so is the steering wheel story hearsay, and you swallowed that one. You can't play this from both angles.
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@Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:
The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 16:03 last edited by Jolly@89th said in A bad day for Trump:
@Jolly said in A bad day for Trump:
The abortion stuff must not be going as planned, since they had to bring in the steering wheel lie.
Love how you presume it’s a lie. Others presume it’s truth. Personally, I’m guessing the truth lives somewhere in the middle of it all.
Dude, when people continually lie to you, and the Dems have told some of the biggest whoppers EVER in American politics, you either have to have just fallen off of a turnip wagon on your first trip to town or you're just head-banging stupid to believe a damn thing they tell you.
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@Larry said in A bad day for Trump:
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
Ok, I'll bite:
One: If it was the Presidential SUV, there is no barrier between the backseat and the front seat.
Two: The Secret Service hasn't testified to that under oath.
Three: Not sure how her testimony makes her a liar. I believe she told the truth about what she heard. Now, whether what she heard was accurate is a different question, as others like @George-K have pointed out.
Four: I'm not sure he was trying to send armed insurgents to the Capitol, but as said before, all of this is hearsay anyway so until there is better proof of his comments (this and others), this is all just vapor testimony, IMO.
wrote on 29 Jun 2022, 16:08 last edited by@89th said in A bad day for Trump:
@Larry said in A bad day for Trump:
Anyone who has even looked inside a limo can tell you it is flat out impossible to grab the steering wheel from the back seat, which is where the VIP would be sitting. That's one. The Secret Service says it didn't happen. That's two. By making such a ridiculous claim, the woman proved herself to be a liar before the sun had set. That's three. It is a proven fact that Trump tried to provide the znational Guard to beef up security. Yet this bunch of fools would have you believe that at the same time as he was trying to beef up security he was conspiring to send armed I surgents into the capital. Thats four.
Ok, I'll bite:
One: If it was the Presidential SUV, there is no barrier between the backseat and the front seat.
Two: The Secret Service hasn't testified to that under oath.
Three: Not sure how her testimony makes her a liar. I believe she told the truth about what she heard. Now, whether what she heard was accurate is a different question, as others like @George-K have pointed out.
Four: I'm not sure he was trying to send armed insurgents to the Capitol, but as said before, all of this is hearsay anyway so until there is better proof of his comments (this and others), this is all just vapor testimony, IMO.
- How do you KNOW there is no barrier? There's one in the Presidential limo.
- The SS has already submitted papers saying they will be happy to testify under oath. Hide behind a tree and see if they're called. I'd say it's 75/25 they're not called.
- That's hearsay. What person in their right mind wants hearsay, possible even third or fourth hand hearsay given in a committee of supposedly this much importance. It's not important, son. It's a political sideshow. They on't give a shit about the country...This is solely trying to wound Trump politically, trying to keep him from running again. It's very hard to steal two elections in a row.
- Troops were offered. It's Pelosi's responsibility to ensure the safety of the Capitol. She did not take the President up on his offer.