The hearings broadcast
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@89th said in The hearings broadcast:
@Horace said in The hearings broadcast:
@89th said in The hearings broadcast:
@Jolly said in The hearings broadcast:
And he also told them to go home.
But you're not going to see that.Besides, you've already made up your mind, so let's not confuse you with facts.
I would hope the hearings (or historical record of events that day) included when Trump eventually posted a video message telling the protestors to go home.
I guess you'll never believe me that I am objective regarding this event. Political parties don't have an impact on my opinion of what happened.
Just looked at a timeline:
- 1:10pm - Trump tells protestors to fight like hell
- 1:45pm - Protestors break through Capitol police line
- 2:24pm - Trump tweets about Pence not having the courage to do what was needed
- 2:24pm - Pence evacuated as the building is flooded with protestors and rioters
- 3:13pm - Trump tweets asking folks to remain peaceful
- 4:17pm - Trump releases video asking folks to go home, and repeats that the election was stolen, the government is taking away their votes, and that he loves the protestors
Trump riled up a mob by convincing them the election was stolen, based on weak or non-existent evidence, the mob broke the law and trespassed into the Capitol, and Trump tsk tsked them upon hearing they broke the law, and told them to go home and stop breaking the law. Historically, this will be considered an insurrection, and we all have to decide where we come down on that framing. Whether we want to side with those pushing that framing, knowing full well the political intentions of that messaging - to shame, in the future, anybody siding politically with the right. You can feel objective all you want, but you might want to consider whose hand you're playing into while you bask in the objectivity.
Objectively, your first half is pretty accurate. Whether I personally see this as <dramatic music> an insurrection </dramatic music>, based on the evidence I would say overall it wasn't.
It was, in order: A) a protest of thousands on the Mall (per the President's instructions), and of that B) most people protesting moved to protest at the Capitol (per the President's instructions), and of that C) about 10-20% ignored the President's instructions to protest peacefully and followed the President's instructions to fight literally and participated in an insurrection who fought their way inside the Capitol where D) only a few dozen had seemingly violent intentions to confront [or worse] those trying to execute their Constitutional electoral duty.
That being said, I have zero problem if the history books overall classify the events as an insurrection. No President should ever do what Trump did again after a landslide loss. If it were me, I would classify it as a protest over false claims of election fraud, of which there was a minority element that participated in a failed insurrection inspired by false claims.
Are you aware that not a single one of the "protesters" was at the Trump rally? Not a one.
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@89th said in The hearings broadcast:
@Larry LOL ok
I don't know about not one, but there were a very large contingent at the Capitol that were not at the rally.
Now, ask yourself, why?
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I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
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Gas prices, low inflation, tax cuts, low interest rates, booming economy, rebuilt military, rise in real wages, constitutional judges, securing the borders.
If that's incompetent, for God's sake, let's do it again.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
You like to talk about this notion of millions of people being slavishly devoted to Donald Trump, but the much more powerful and meaningful cultural force was always the blind hatred of the man from the mainstream left.
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@Horace said in The hearings broadcast:
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
You like to talk about this notion of millions of people being slavishly devoted to Donald Trump, but the much more powerful and meaningful cultural force was always the blind hatred of the man from the mainstream left.
Hmmm, there are about 30-40% of the people on the left who super dislike President Trump. BUT, there are an equal % of people on the right who have fallen under the spell of personality and have the right side equivalent of TDS (Trump Deification Syndrome).
Those on the left say - "Who me? No I don't have TDS!" when it is obvious when looking from the outside.
Those on the right say - "Who me? No, I don't have TDS!" when it is obvious when looking from the outside.
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@Mik said in The hearings broadcast:
I might take that list a little more seriously if they got the titles anywhere near correct. There hasn’t been a secretary of war for at least 50 years and we’ve never had ministers of anything.
Now take all the people who wrote books off that list.
It was me who put together the list! 555. I may have got the titles incorrect but I think you recognize the person I have listed. LOLDoesn't matter if they wrote a book or not. It amazes me the number of high level people (most quite respected) who, after working closely with President Trump, have basically indicated that he not very competent to be President.
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@Jolly said in The hearings broadcast:
Gas prices, low inflation, tax cuts, low interest rates, booming economy, rebuilt military, rise in real wages, constitutional judges, securing the borders.
If that's incompetent, for God's sake, let's do it again.
Sounds like you would have voted for President Obama if he could run for the third time. Seems to "check" most of the things you have listed, in a lot of cases with better numbers than President Trump. LOL
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Mr. Obama was 2/9 or 3/9 on those.
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@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
@Horace said in The hearings broadcast:
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
You like to talk about this notion of millions of people being slavishly devoted to Donald Trump, but the much more powerful and meaningful cultural force was always the blind hatred of the man from the mainstream left.
Hmmm, there are about 30-40% of the people on the left who super dislike President Trump. BUT, there are an equal % of people on the right who have fallen under the spell of personality and have the right side equivalent of TDS (Trump Deification Syndrome).
Those on the left say - "Who me? No I don't have TDS!" when it is obvious when looking from the outside.
Those on the right say - "Who me? No, I don't have TDS!" when it is obvious when looking from the outside.
Well you just say these things, but some of us actually live and breath with Americans. There’s nothing wrong with being religious, but a religion of both sides in all cultural conflicts always being equal, isn’t an actual argument, it is just citing your gospel.
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@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
None of the people on your list has EVER said that Trump was incompetent. NONE OF THEM. Most of them disagreed with his position on voter fraud. I suggest you go see 2000 Mules to find out that it's highly likely that Trump was correct.
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@Larry said in The hearings broadcast:
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
None of the people on your list has EVER said that Trump was incompetent. NONE OF THEM. Most of them disagreed with his position on voter fraud. I suggest you go see 2000 Mules to find out that it's highly likely that Trump was correct.
John Bolten - "President Trump was erratic" and "stunningly uninformed"
James Mattis - "we are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership"
Rex Tillerson - President Trump is a "fucking moron"
John Kelly - stated that he agreed with James Mattis assessment of President Trump
etc etc
I agree that the world "incompetent" was not used, but I think the above are synonyms for it.
Love (and hate) is somewhat blind. If you "love" President Trump, evidence to the contrary on his abilities will not change your mind.
If you hate him same thing. He could develop a cure for cancer, institute a lasting world peace, and it wouldn't matter.
I listen to true crime stuff and there is occasionally a case something like where a son is arrested for robbery (for example). Despite video evidence and 35 eyewitnesses, the mother will say - "There is no way my son did this. He is innocent! I know him."
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Well, Bless your heart.
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@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
@Larry said in The hearings broadcast:
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
None of the people on your list has EVER said that Trump was incompetent. NONE OF THEM. Most of them disagreed with his position on voter fraud. I suggest you go see 2000 Mules to find out that it's highly likely that Trump was correct.
John Bolten - "President Trump was erratic" and "stunningly uninformed"
James Mattis - "we are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership"
Rex Tillerson - President Trump is a "fucking moron"
John Kelly - stated that he agreed with James Mattis assessment of President Trump
etc etc
I agree that the world "incompetent" was not used, but I think the above are synonyms for it.
Love (and hate) is somewhat blind. If you "love" President Trump, evidence to the contrary on his abilities will not change your mind.
If you hate him same thing. He could develop a cure for cancer, institute a lasting world peace, and it wouldn't matter.
I listen to true crime stuff and there is occasionally a case something like where a son is arrested for robbery (for example). Despite video evidence and 35 eyewitnesses, the mother will say - "There is no way my son did this. He is innocent! I know him."
There's a certain art to participating in political discussions. A preference for one candidate over the other actually says nothing about how much room for improvement one's favored candidate has, but that room for improvement is beside the point. What you interpret as "undying love" or "cult indoctrination" is people playing by the rules of a well-understood game, where you don't spend your time criticizing the team you hope will win. I suppose there might be a name for a political movement filled with intellectually honest public self-criticizers, but that name has long been lost to history, as that political party got beat in every election every time.
You don't participate in any political discussions here, so you are safe to criticize the manner in which participants conduct themselves. But if you ever do have an opinion on politics or culture wars, and you actually care, you will find yourself playing by the rules I described. And you will not feel yourself to be blindly indoctrinated into the side you chose.
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@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
@Larry said in The hearings broadcast:
@taiwan_girl said in The hearings broadcast:
I have watched some of the information hearings, and the thing that stands out to me is that based on responses to the hearings, there is still a significant portion of the population who has a "slavish devotion" to President Trump.
The number of high ranking people in his administration who have come out and said that President Trump is/was basically incompetent is quite high. If it were one person saying that, hmmm. some "skepticism". But, the sheer number of people unrelated to each other saying the same thing makes me think that there must be some truth to what they are saying. "Where there's smoke.........."
Mike Pence - Vice President
Bill Sepien - 2020 campaign manager
Betsy Devos - Sec of Education
John Bolton - National Security Advisor
James Mattis - Secretary of War
John Kelly - Chief of Staff
Richard Spencer - Secretary of Navy
Gary Cohn - Economics Council
Tom Bossert - Homeland Security Advisor
Stephanie Grisham - press secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tilleson - Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deborah Birx - Trump COVID Response LeaderAm I missing anyone?
Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the philosophies of the people listed above, but there are quite a few smart people in that group, and all of them worked very closely with President Trump. So, while I may not always agree with their philosophy, I respect their analysis in this case.
The cult of personality that President Trump has developed baffles me (and scares me a little bit). The US can do so much better than him.
None of the people on your list has EVER said that Trump was incompetent. NONE OF THEM. Most of them disagreed with his position on voter fraud. I suggest you go see 2000 Mules to find out that it's highly likely that Trump was correct.
John Bolten - "President Trump was erratic" and "stunningly uninformed"
James Mattis - "we are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership"
Rex Tillerson - President Trump is a "fucking moron"
John Kelly - stated that he agreed with James Mattis assessment of President Trump
etc etc
I agree that the world "incompetent" was not used, but I think the above are synonyms for it.
Love (and hate) is somewhat blind. If you "love" President Trump, evidence to the contrary on his abilities will not change your mind.
If you hate him same thing. He could develop a cure for cancer, institute a lasting world peace, and it wouldn't matter.
I listen to true crime stuff and there is occasionally a case something like where a son is arrested for robbery (for example). Despite video evidence and 35 eyewitnesses, the mother will say - "There is no way my son did this. He is innocent! I know him."
No, what you've done is typical leftwing "logic", where you make a derogatory claim that isn't true, state it as fact, and then if challenged, you defend it by digging up something close, take it out of context, and in this case, ignore the time in each person's life in which these statements were made. I could do the same and provide you with a list of quotes by these men where all of them are bragging on Trump like he's the Second Coming.
Every single person you listed was fired. Before they got fired, they each and every one bragged on Trump. You put together a list of sour grapes remarks made after getting their asses handed to them and think you've defended your statement - you haven't. What a man says after getting fired is useless. Not only is your list useless, you've had to admit that not a single one of them called Trump incompetent. Welcome to your corner.
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Noonan's take on the Trump Presidency. She does a nice job of explaining some of his appeal in 2016 at the start of the column - but I think she underestimates the strength of his support for 2024.
