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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. And here's where I disagree with AL...

And here's where I disagree with AL...

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Wife was reading me something a teacher wrote...She was leaving the classroom after fifteen years, because she felt like she was being a much less effective teacher than when she started, mostly due to curriculum mandates and teaching methods.

    She wrote that school shootings, wherever they happened, all became a topic in the teacher's lounge and certainly contributed to the stress of the job. She used to keep a ratchet strap in the classroom, so she could ratchet the knob to a book filled cabinet that was attached to the wall, so that even somebody with a key couldn't open the door, should a shooting code be given over the PA.

    She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

    She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

    She wrote about all of the single parents and how hard it was for a single parent to be really involved with school projects or activities, and she worried that the children just weren't receiving the time with their parents that they needed. Too often their babysitter was a TV or a computer. Because of that, it seemed like the kids needed constant stimulation or they became rowdy and undisciplined.

    Lastly, she wrote that a lack of organized religion was also taking its toll. She felt that children who were taught the worth of people, who were taught that a supreme being made them in his image and that they had intrinsic worth, just had a better outook on life, although that was purely subjective.

    BTW, she taught Pre-K, Kindergarten and First Grade during her fifteen years.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Jolly

      Wife was reading me something a teacher wrote...She was leaving the classroom after fifteen years, because she felt like she was being a much less effective teacher than when she started, mostly due to curriculum mandates and teaching methods.

      She wrote that school shootings, wherever they happened, all became a topic in the teacher's lounge and certainly contributed to the stress of the job. She used to keep a ratchet strap in the classroom, so she could ratchet the knob to a book filled cabinet that was attached to the wall, so that even somebody with a key couldn't open the door, should a shooting code be given over the PA.

      She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

      She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

      She wrote about all of the single parents and how hard it was for a single parent to be really involved with school projects or activities, and she worried that the children just weren't receiving the time with their parents that they needed. Too often their babysitter was a TV or a computer. Because of that, it seemed like the kids needed constant stimulation or they became rowdy and undisciplined.

      Lastly, she wrote that a lack of organized religion was also taking its toll. She felt that children who were taught the worth of people, who were taught that a supreme being made them in his image and that they had intrinsic worth, just had a better outook on life, although that was purely subjective.

      BTW, she taught Pre-K, Kindergarten and First Grade during her fifteen years.

      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

      She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

      She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

      They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

      Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

      Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

      What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

      Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

      Please love yourself.

      LuFins DadL AxtremusA KlausK 3 Replies Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

        She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

        She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

        They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

        Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

        Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

        What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

        Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

        @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

        She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

        She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

        They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

        Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

        Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

        What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

        Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

        I was with you right up until the Elvis comment. I’ve come to realize that Elvis and his hips WERE a corrupting influence and my grandfather was right…

        The Brad

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

          @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

          @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

          She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

          She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

          They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

          Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

          Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

          What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

          Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

          I was with you right up until the Elvis comment. I’ve come to realize that Elvis and his hips WERE a corrupting influence and my grandfather was right…

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
          #4

          @LuFins-Dad said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

          I was with you right up until the Elvis comment. I’ve come to realize that Elvis and his hips WERE a corrupting influence and my grandfather was right…

          Uh huh. And the appropriate thing was to do what, exactly? Put your finger in the dike, forbid your kids from watching?

          The most hardcore atheists I know had overly strict religious parents. Every single one. Great job, parents. Stellar.

          The ones who slept around the most had overly strict parents who were prudes.

          The most crazy-assed white liberals I know had overly strict Republican parents.

          Being out of touch with kids, but thinking you know what's best for them is a perfect recipe to be the worst kind of parent or teacher.

          Knowing where kids are at, leveling with them while trying to keep them safe and moving in a good direction is a far better way to go. Yes, that's a judgement call on my part. No, I'm not parent of the year and I'm definitely going to fuck up royally in the next 20 years. But I'm also not wrong about this.

          Please love yourself.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor Phibes
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
            .
            .
            .
            So, who said this?

            I was only joking

            CopperC Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
            • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

              “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
              .
              .
              .
              So, who said this?

              CopperC Offline
              CopperC Offline
              Copper
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

              “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
              .
              .
              .
              So, who said this?

              Adam

              Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

                She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

                They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

                Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

                What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

                Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

                AxtremusA Away
                AxtremusA Away
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

                She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

                They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

                Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

                What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

                Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

                Maybe someone should bring this information to the ex-teacher who wrote the thing Jolly paraphrased. :man-shrugging:

                1 Reply Last reply
                • AxtremusA Away
                  AxtremusA Away
                  Axtremus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Lastly, she wrote that a lack of organized religion was also taking its toll.

                  Along the same line, lots of places around the developed world have even less of organized religion, yet the USA is the one with the most gun violence. E.g., the people in UK, Germany, France, Sweden, Japan, Australia, even Canada place a lot less emphasis on organized religion in their lives, yet none of them gets even near the level of gun violence in the USA.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                    @Jolly said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                    She wrote about how the children talked about the shooting games like HALO, and how it seemed like they were addicted to playing them. She wrote that they had to stop playing Red Light/Green Light on the playground, because students would stop running to shoot their playmates and those playmates would fake gruesome death poses on the ground.

                    She wrote about how she kept suggesting to parents to use age-appropriate games, but the parents kept telling her they could not control their children or that it was just easier at home to let Johnny or Susie just do what they wanted to do.

                    They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                    Hundreds of thousands of kids play the everloving shit out of these games and Never, capital N Never, commit violence.

                    Millions of kids worldwide play the same games, at the same time, against our kids and their countries don't have the gun violence problem ours has.

                    What this is, you don't like video games. And it all snowballs from there. Because you don't like them, you have decided to find FPSes morally corrupting. And because you've decided all that, might as well slap school shootings to their list of crimes, too.

                    Some of these "games" are disgusting and ridiculous, that's true. But in the example above, I'm sorry, Halo? Freaking Halo? This is Elvis swinging his hips.

                    KlausK Offline
                    KlausK Offline
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                    They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                    There have been thousands of studies on this, and overall they are inconclusive. Some do find links between video games and aggression or violence and others do not. Wikipedia has a list of studies that find such a link and another list of studies that does not. So, everyone can pick the studies (s)he agrees with and the ignore the others.

                    In my opinion, the studies would need to look different to produce clear results. They would have to preselect the 1% of kids who have a (genetic or environmental) predisposition to aggressiveness and see what influence violent video games have on them.

                    On one hand, video games are a convenient scape goat. On the other hand, it suggests itself that permanent exposure to virtual violence can change the inner coordinates of a person.

                    What I observe in my own kids: When they play video games for a long time, they are more aggressive for a couple of hours after they finished. It does not usually lead to violence, but when I imagine other kids from a less stable "background" with much more video game time and much less compensational environment, then I find it plausible that video games can intensify predispositions to violent behavior.

                    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                    • KlausK Klaus

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                      They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                      There have been thousands of studies on this, and overall they are inconclusive. Some do find links between video games and aggression or violence and others do not. Wikipedia has a list of studies that find such a link and another list of studies that does not. So, everyone can pick the studies (s)he agrees with and the ignore the others.

                      In my opinion, the studies would need to look different to produce clear results. They would have to preselect the 1% of kids who have a (genetic or environmental) predisposition to aggressiveness and see what influence violent video games have on them.

                      On one hand, video games are a convenient scape goat. On the other hand, it suggests itself that permanent exposure to virtual violence can change the inner coordinates of a person.

                      What I observe in my own kids: When they play video games for a long time, they are more aggressive for a couple of hours after they finished. It does not usually lead to violence, but when I imagine other kids from a less stable "background" with much more video game time and much less compensational environment, then I find it plausible that video games can intensify predispositions to violent behavior.

                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Klaus said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                      They've done studies on this. Scads. The most famous one showed that PvP Call of Duty actually forged new friendships between players in Toronto and Detroit, and eliminated animosity that existed prior to playing.

                      There have been thousands of studies on this, and overall they are inconclusive. Some do find links between video games and aggression or violence and others do not. Wikipedia has a list of studies that find such a link and another list of studies that does not. So, everyone can pick the studies (s)he agrees with and the ignore the others.

                      In my opinion, the studies would need to look different to produce clear results. They would have to preselect the 1% of kids who have a (genetic or environmental) predisposition to aggressiveness and see what influence violent video games have on them.

                      Do we know that these 1% kids are always the ones who do the shootings?

                      Please love yourself.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                        Doctor Phibes
                        wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                        #11

                        When I was a kid, people said exactly the same thing about violent TV shows, and the shows today are way more violent than they were back then, and there's no 9 o'clock watershed - they can watch anything they want, all the time.

                        So, when we start banning shit we don't like, we clearly shouldn't stop with video games.

                        My grandad wouldn't have approved either, but then he probably couldn't explain how two world wars started with a total absence of either of these things.

                        Maybe starting world wars falls under "making our own entertainment", which is apparently what old people used to do before they were old.

                        I was only joking

                        Aqua LetiferA markM 2 Replies Last reply
                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                          When I was a kid, people said exactly the same thing about violent TV shows, and the shows today are way more violent than they were back then, and there's no 9 o'clock watershed - they can watch anything they want, all the time.

                          So, when we start banning shit we don't like, we clearly shouldn't stop with video games.

                          My grandad wouldn't have approved either, but then he probably couldn't explain how two world wars started with a total absence of either of these things.

                          Maybe starting world wars falls under "making our own entertainment", which is apparently what old people used to do before they were old.

                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                          #12

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                          When I was a kid, people said exactly the same thing about violent TV shows,

                          I've a better example: Satanic Panic.

                          D&D first. Parents and teachers of a certain kind (read: the out-of-touch Christian kind) lost their shit over D&D, thanks in large part to Tom fucking Hanks and Mazes & Monsters.

                          D&D was fucking radioactive. Get caught with a book, and you had this to look forward to:

                          1. Maving the book confiscated and all your stuff tossed like Andy Dufresne in fucking Shawshank in case you might have more.
                          2. Mandatory trips to the school guidance counselor's office.
                          3. Eternal condemnation from the rest of the school. Congratulations, the gay and the shortbus kids—who had a similarly easier time in school thanks to which group again? Who are we talking about there?—will now have an easier time than you getting a prom date.

                          After D&D came Magic. Same shit, different game. I had to hide my cards in my fucking socks like a drug addict.

                          Decades on, how's this workin' out, fundamentalist Christians?

                          https://gametogrow.org/criticalcore/

                          https://www.takethis.org

                          https://www.post-gazette.com/ae/tv-radio/2019/01/08/Joe-Manganiello-Dungeons-and-Dragons-Childrens-Hospital-Pittsburgh/stories/201901080140

                          I'm not trying to be a dick about this. You can be a fundamentalist Christian and be a great parent, teacher or role model. But you can't be out of touch. When you are, shit like this is the result. Head-in-the-sand histrionics that basically ensure the kids develop some hangups that take decades to untangle.

                          Please love yourself.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • AxtremusA Away
                            AxtremusA Away
                            Axtremus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Reminds me of a Christian church group I once affiliated with who fought (and may still be fighting) Halloween and Harry Potter. Nice people! 🙂

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                              “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              So, who said this?

                              Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua Letifer
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                              “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              So, who said this?

                              I reckon it was someone complaining about those damn boomer kids. 😁

                              Please love yourself.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                When I was a kid, people said exactly the same thing about violent TV shows, and the shows today are way more violent than they were back then, and there's no 9 o'clock watershed - they can watch anything they want, all the time.

                                So, when we start banning shit we don't like, we clearly shouldn't stop with video games.

                                My grandad wouldn't have approved either, but then he probably couldn't explain how two world wars started with a total absence of either of these things.

                                Maybe starting world wars falls under "making our own entertainment", which is apparently what old people used to do before they were old.

                                markM Offline
                                markM Offline
                                mark
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                When I was a kid, people said exactly the same thing about violent TV shows, and the shows today are way more violent than they were back then, and there's no 9 o'clock watershed - they can watch anything they want, all the time.

                                So, when we start banning shit we don't like, we clearly shouldn't stop with video games.

                                My grandad wouldn't have approved either, but then he probably couldn't explain how two world wars started with a total absence of either of these things.

                                Maybe starting world wars falls under "making our own entertainment", which is apparently what old people used to do before they were old.

                                Blood on the Rooftops
                                Dark and grey, an English film, the Wednesday Play
                                We always watch the Queen on Christmas Day
                                Won't you stay?

                                Though your eyes see shipwrecked sailors you're still dry
                                The outlook's fine though Wales might have some rain
                                Saved again

                                Let's skip the news boy, I'll make some tea
                                The Arabs and the Jews boy, too much for me
                                They get me confused boy, puts me off to sleep
                                And the thing I hate, oh Lord
                                Is staying up late, to watch some debate on some nation's fate.

                                Hypnotized by Batman, Tarzan, still surprised
                                You've won the West in time to be our guest
                                Name your prize

                                Drop of wine, glass of beer dear what's the time?
                                The grime on the Tyne is mine, all mine, all mine
                                Five past nine

                                Blood on the rooftops, Venice in the Spring
                                Streets of San Francisco, word from Peking
                                The trouble was started by a young Errol Flynn
                                Better in my day, oh Lord
                                For when we got bored, we'd have a World War, happy but poor

                                So let's skip the news boy, I'll go make that tea
                                Blood on the rooftops, too much for me
                                When old Mother Goose stops and they're out for twenty-three
                                Then the rain at Lords stopped play
                                Seems Helen of Troy has found a new face again

                                Genesis 1976

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • CopperC Copper

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                  “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                                  .
                                  .
                                  .
                                  So, who said this?

                                  Adam

                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                  #16

                                  @Copper said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:
                                  “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                                  .
                                  .
                                  .
                                  So, who said this?

                                  Adam

                                  Close - it was Socrates

                                  I was only joking

                                  AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                    @Copper said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:
                                    “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                                    .
                                    .
                                    .
                                    So, who said this?

                                    Adam

                                    Close - it was Socrates

                                    AxtremusA Away
                                    AxtremusA Away
                                    Axtremus
                                    wrote on last edited by Axtremus
                                    #17

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                    @Copper said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:
                                    “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
                                    .
                                    .
                                    .
                                    So, who said this?

                                    Adam

                                    Close - it was Socrates

                                    Did Socrates try asking his students who they want to sit with next week and who they want to nominate as “exceptional citizen of the classroom” each week?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

                                      fact checked, into the boards.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Horace

                                        https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

                                        fact checked, into the boards.

                                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                        Aqua Letifer
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Horace said in And here's where I disagree with AL...:

                                        https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

                                        fact checked, into the boards.

                                        The spirit of the quote still holds true. It's not like kids and older generations lived in perfect harmony, with parents thinking their kids were model citizens and certified Upstanding Young People for centuries prior to boomers.

                                        Please love yourself.

                                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Offline
                                          JollyJ Offline
                                          Jolly
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Here's what I think, after working with crazy people for over thirty years...

                                          1. Never assume what is not stimulating to a normal person, doesn't ratchet a crazy person into irrational or bizarre behavior.
                                          2. Calm is better. Uncomplicated is better. Stress causes mentally unstable people to act out and a certain percentage can become pretty violent.
                                          3. The power of suggestion works pretty well on some. They aren't sure what to believe and if you keep nudging them in a certain direction, some of them have sea changes in attitude and demeanor.

                                          Going back to our guns discussion...

                                          Guns have always been pretty prevalent in American society and culture. We've also had violent periods such as the assassination episodes that Jon pointed out. What has been pretty rare, have been mass shootings by an individual, particularly in schools.

                                          So, society has changed. Period. Full stop.

                                          The question then becomes how and why?

                                          I think the teacher has some decent points and I'll add a few...

                                          1. Violent video games are not for young children. Most young children don't have a clue about the finality of death and don't have the background of rural children who are a little familiar with animal slaughter and butchering (although that is becoming rare, too). I think they rewire the mind into a faulty perception of violence and death.
                                          2. Speaking of rewiring...Sam Neil said the other day that the new Jurassic Park movie was very different t compared to the original. Modern movie audiences will not tolerate a slow reveal such as the first scene with the T. Rex as in the original. The modern audience demands almost constant action. Their brains are wired for it. Why?
                                            Probably because of the digital age, which causes brain pathways to be rewired, because of constant stimulation. Kids and young people today, do not think the way their grandparents did.
                                          3. Because of constant stimulation and over-diagnosis, or maybe just the fact we run schools like prisons without recesses and unstructured play, more than 50% of many elementary school students are on psychotropic medications. That is bad. Period. Full stop.

                                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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