Texas shooting.

[Mik]

No approach is going to be foolproof. But locked doors would have helped or prevented this situation. Nothing you can suggest for gun control will be foolproof either and will be far more difficult.

It is said politics is the art of the possible.

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job. It's easy to say each individual should go renegade and be dirty harry, but I think it's ignorant to think that would be the obvious decision in the moment. Unless you also think each individual who failed to make that obvious decision is a cowardly dirt bag. More likely that they're normal people, making normal decisions in an abnormal moment. But shitting on all of them will teach their counterparts throughout the country a lesson, so it's probably for the best.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

[Horace]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.

[89th]

@Mik said in Texas shooting.:

It would have kept Ramos out.

11:27 a.m. — Video footage shows a teacher at Robb Elementary propping open an exterior door. Ramos reportedly entered through this door.

11:28 a.m. — Ramos’ vehicle crashes near the school. A teacher ran back to a classroom to get a phone and came back to the door, allowing it to remain open. Two men, at a nearby funeral home, made their way to the crash scene where they saw Ramos exit the vehicle from the passenger side with a gun and backpack. The witnesses reportedly began running and Ramos tried shooting at them.

11:30 a.m. — 911 receives a phone call that there was a man who crashed his vehicle and has a gun.

11:31 a.m. — Ramos “reaches the last row of vehicles in the school parking lot,” McCraw said. The 18-year-old began shooting at the school, while police responded to the funeral home. McCraw adds that previous statements that officers confronted Ramos were inaccurate, and that an officer who heard the 911 call “drove immediately to the area he thought was the man with the gun, to the back of the school, which turned out to be a teacher.” McCraw said the officer drove by the suspect, who was “hunkered down behind a vehicle.”

11:32 a.m. — Ramos fires multiple shots at the school from outside, then enters the building.

11:33 a.m. — Ramos begins shooting in a classroom. McCraw says audio evidence from video footage shows Ramos shooting over 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m. — Three officers enter the school through the same doors that Ramos reportedly entered. Later, four more officers joined. The initial three officers were shot at, and some were grazed by bullets. Ramos shut the door to the classroom.

11:37 a.m. — Over 16 rounds are fired.

11:51 a.m. — More police begin to arrive.

12:03 p.m. — As many as 19 police officers were in the hallway outside the classroom. McCraw said they believed the active shooter situation had transitioned into a barricaded person call. A female caller dialed 911 from the classroom. The length of the call was less than 90 seconds. She said her name and said she was in classroom 112.

12:10 p.m. — The caller tells 911 that multiple people were dead.

12:13 p.m. — The female calls 911 again.

12:15 p.m. — More technicians arrive with shields.

12:16 p.m. — Female calls 911 again, adding that eight to nine students are still alive.

12:19 p.m. — Another person, in room 111 called 911. “She hung up when another student told her to hang up,” McCraw said.

12:21 p.m. — Suspect fires more shots at the door. Law enforcement moved down the hallway. A 911 call also captured three shots being fired.

12:36 p.m. — Another 911 call lasted for 21 seconds. The caller, a student, stayed on the line quietly. “She told 911 that he shot the door,” McCraw said, adding that the student asked 911 to “please send the police now.”

12:46 p.m. — Student tells 911 she can hear police next door.

12:50 p.m. — Officers breach the door using keys obtained from a janitor and kill the suspect.

12:51 p.m. — The 911 call was “loud” and “sounded like officers were moving children out of the room,” McCraw said.

[89th]

The above is the timeline. That exterior door was obv a fatal error in retrospect. Ramos was firing at the school from the parking lot at first, didn’t seem like he had a plan but probably saw that door was propped open.

[Jolly]

@Axtremus said in Texas shooting.:

@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:

Actually, I gave you recommendations the other day from a guy that did executive security.

How well does "executive security" translates to "public school security"?

Security for a billionaire, his/her immediate family, and his/her entourage has got to have many significant differences than security for hundreds and thousands of public school children, right? The difference in cost of security $ per protected person has got to be huge, right?

In some respects, no.

It's all about how to negate a threat and different venues, people, etc., will call for different responses using the resources allocated unto you.

[Mik]

You get screened going into all sorts of public buildings and arenas. Should schools with our children be less secure?

[Copper]

Should anyplace be less secure?

It used to be post offices and military bases.

Did they become more secure or did the focus shift?

[Aqua Letifer]

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.

What's impressive to me is to defend these assholes in particular while hating firefighters generally.

[Doctor Phibes]

I suspect if lots of money is spent hardening schools that a fair amount of time is going to be spent explaining how an attack that occurred just wasn’t possible

I honestly don’t think that turning our children’s places of work, and in some cases their refuge, into fortresses is a good idea at all. What kind of message does it send? Aren’t we already being accused of being the overprotective generation?

[Horace]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.

What's impressive to me is to defend these assholes in particular while hating firefighters generally.

Right, because I hate firefighters. I don't actually hate firefighters, but it would probably be ok if more people understood that their hero status is not based on consistently passing tests like these that the cops failed.

[Copper]

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

Right, because I hate firefighters. I don't actually hate firefighters, but it would probably be ok if more people understood that their hero status is not based on consistently passing tests like these that the cops failed.

Did you know that almost 70% of firefighters in this country are volunteers?

[Aqua Letifer]

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.

Deserved, no?

Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.

What's impressive to me is to defend these assholes in particular while hating firefighters generally.

Right, because I hate firefighters. I don't actually hate firefighters, but it would probably be ok if more people understood that their hero status is not based on consistently passing tests like these that the cops failed.

Consistently?

[Horace]

@Copper said in Texas shooting.:

@Horace said in Texas shooting.:

Right, because I hate firefighters. I don't actually hate firefighters, but it would probably be ok if more people understood that their hero status is not based on consistently passing tests like these that the cops failed.

Did you know that almost 70% of firefighters in this country are volunteers?

I suspect volunteer school shooter fighters would not wait for backup. But the posts Aqua is remembering, are probably my commentary on the unionized fire fighters in larger cities. Jobs for which applications pile up to the ceiling. There's a reason for that.

[Mik]

[jon-nyc]

[George K]

@jon-nyc safety first!

[89th]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

I suspect if lots of money is spent hardening schools that a fair amount of time is going to be spent explaining how an attack that occurred just wasn’t possible

I honestly don’t think that turning our children’s places of work, and in some cases their refuge, into fortresses is a good idea at all. What kind of message does it send? Aren’t we already being accused of being the overprotective generation?

Agreed. I would rather err on the side of open than over protection. When I lived in Virginia the baseball games went from a turnstile to a thorough security check. In MN luckily so far it’s back to a turnstile.