Robert E Lee
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@Larry said in Robert E Lee:
Yet for the most part Tennessee didn't approve of slavery.
Your statement there is not supported by historical facts.
Excerpted from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_Tennessee :
In 1831, however, the state government [of Tennessee] mandated that emancipated slaves immediately depart the state, and prohibited the migration of free Blacks to Tennessee.
The 1834 State Constitutional Convention in Nashville defeated a proposal to gradually abolish slavery over a twenty-year period.[15][16] Despite wide-ranging debate, the pro-slavery faction was victorious across the board. The new constitution formally forbid Blacks, slave or free, from voting.[15] It also stripped the legislature of any "power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves, without the consent of their owner or owners." The right to bear arms was restricted to "the free white men of this State."[17]
Based on Tennessee’s state Constitution and state laws enacted in Tennessee before the Civil War, despite East Tennessee’s anti-slavery stance, the state of Tennessee literally approved slavery.
@Axtremus said in Robert E Lee:
@Larry said in Robert E Lee:
Yet for the most part Tennessee didn't approve of slavery.
Your statement there is not supported by historical facts.
Excerpted from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_Tennessee :
In 1831, however, the state government [of Tennessee] mandated that emancipated slaves immediately depart the state, and prohibited the migration of free Blacks to Tennessee.
The 1834 State Constitutional Convention in Nashville defeated a proposal to gradually abolish slavery over a twenty-year period.[15][16] Despite wide-ranging debate, the pro-slavery faction was victorious across the board. The new constitution formally forbid Blacks, slave or free, from voting.[15] It also stripped the legislature of any "power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves, without the consent of their owner or owners." The right to bear arms was restricted to "the free white men of this State."[17]
Based on Tennessee’s state Constitution and state laws enacted in Tennessee before the Civil War, despite East Tennessee’s anti-slavery stance, the state of Tennessee literally approved slavery.
And if you go back even further, East Tennessee and part of North Carolina was the State of Franklin. Which has about as much to do with what i said as what you wrote.
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@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
BTW, are there any monuments to slave owners just because they were slave owners, anywhere in the U.S.?
I sure hope not, though I have not done a survey of all monuments or read any such survey (should one exist) to say one way or another.
It seems the removal or statues/monuments are aimed at the statues/monuments memorializing those who own owned slaves and/or actively opposed emancipation, regardless of the reasons of memorialization at the time.
Specifically for the case of Robert E. Lee, though, certainly the General was memorialized chiefly for his work of fighting against the pro-emancipation forces, wouldn’t you agree?
@Axtremus said in Robert E Lee:
@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
BTW, are there any monuments to slave owners just because they were slave owners, anywhere in the U.S.?
I sure hope not, though I have not done a survey of all monuments or read any such survey (should one exist) to say one way or another.
It seems the removal or statues/monuments are aimed at the statues/monuments memorializing those who own owned slaves and/or actively opposed emancipation, regardless of the reasons of memorialization at the time.
Specifically for the case of Robert E. Lee, though, certainly the General was memorialized chiefly for his work of fighting against the pro-emancipation forces, wouldn’t you agree?
No, he was memorialized as a military leader of the Confederacy. This is why it is important that the eradication of historical figures is stopped. Without it morons will come along later and think the only reason for the war was slavery..... like you just did.
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I think we need to take down all George Washington statues. I think we need to erase his image and Thomas Jefferson's image from our currency. I think we need to tear down that unsightly Washington monument in D.C. While we are at, let's get rid of anything honoring Abraham Lincoln, as the man would have gladly accepted slavery in 1862.
Shucks, Abe didn't even mind the band playing Dixie for his wife, who was -GASP - a Southerner.
Oh, BTW, did you know that 41 signers of the Declaration of Independence were slave owners? And 25 of the delegates writing the Constitution owned slaves.
Maybe we need to start tearing down a lot more monuments, statues and buildings. Well, maybe we can rename the buildings...Something less offensive, like Trotsky Plaza ...
@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
I think we need to take down all George Washington statues. I think we need to erase his image and Thomas Jefferson's image from our currency....
If you drink Coke, you'd better stop. The guy who developed it was a Confederate Colonel who sought out something to replace his addiction to morphine.
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@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
BTW, are there any monuments to slave owners just because they were slave owners, anywhere in the U.S.?
I sure hope not, though I have not done a survey of all monuments or read any such survey (should one exist) to say one way or another.
It seems the removal or statues/monuments are aimed at the statues/monuments memorializing those who own owned slaves and/or actively opposed emancipation, regardless of the reasons of memorialization at the time.
Specifically for the case of Robert E. Lee, though, certainly the General was memorialized chiefly for his work of fighting against the pro-emancipation forces, wouldn’t you agree?
@Axtremus said in Robert E Lee:
It seems the removal or statues/monuments are aimed at the statues/monuments memorializing those who own owned slaves and/or actively opposed emancipation, regardless of the reasons of memorialization at the time.
Why bother?
The slave owners will eventually come back to power.
And they will just put the statues back up.
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@Axtremus said in Robert E Lee:
It seems the removal or statues/monuments are aimed at the statues/monuments memorializing those who own owned slaves and/or actively opposed emancipation, regardless of the reasons of memorialization at the time.
Why bother?
The slave owners will eventually come back to power.
And they will just put the statues back up.
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London mayor Sadiq Khan has ordered a review of the capital's statues and street names after the toppling of the statue of an English slave trader by anti-racism protesters triggered a debate about the demons of Britain's imperial past.
A statue of Edward Colston, who made a fortune in the 17th century from trading West African slaves, was torn down and thrown into Bristol harbour on Sunday by a group of demonstrators taking part in a wave of protests following the death of George Floyd in the United States.
Khan said a commission would review statues, plaques and street names which largely reflect the rapid expansion of London's wealth and power at the height of Britain's empire in the reign of Queen Victoria.
"Our capital’s diversity is our greatest strength, yet our statues, road names and public spaces reflect a bygone era," Khan said. He said some statues would be removed.
"It is an uncomfortable truth that our nation and city owes a large part of its wealth to its role in the slave trade and while this is reflected in our public realm, the contribution of many of our communities to life in our capital has been wilfully ignored."
In the biggest deportation in known history, weapons and gunpowder from Europe were swapped for millions of African slaves who were then shipped across the Atlantic to the Americas. Ships returned to Europe with sugar, cotton and tobacco.
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https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_82065b00212d320b466da6898609a2e7
Richmond judge blocks the state's removal of Robert E Lee statue.
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MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
@jon-nyc said in Robert E Lee:
MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
I thought his views were straight forward and Biblical. As with most things today, the LGBTQXYRZ community is engaged in higher forms of pretzel logic, claiming King was A-O-tay with homosexuality.
I thought Martin Luther actually said it better... " The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. "
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@jon-nyc said in Robert E Lee:
MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
I thought his views were straight forward and Biblical. As with most things today, the LGBTQXYRZ community is engaged in higher forms of pretzel logic, claiming King was A-O-tay with homosexuality.
I thought Martin Luther actually said it better... " The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. "
@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
@jon-nyc said in Robert E Lee:
MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
I thought his views were straight forward and Biblical. As with most things today, the LGBTQXYRZ community is engaged in higher forms of pretzel logic, claiming King was A-O-tay with homosexuality.
I thought Martin Luther actually said it better... " The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. "
He went on to say:
"They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".
Oh silly me, he wasn't talking about homosexuals here, but about the Jews. Thank God nobody in Germany picked up on this sort of talk.
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@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
@jon-nyc said in Robert E Lee:
MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
I thought his views were straight forward and Biblical. As with most things today, the LGBTQXYRZ community is engaged in higher forms of pretzel logic, claiming King was A-O-tay with homosexuality.
I thought Martin Luther actually said it better... " The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. "
He went on to say:
"They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".
Oh silly me, he wasn't talking about homosexuals here, but about the Jews. Thank God nobody in Germany picked up on this sort of talk.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Robert E Lee:
@Jolly said in Robert E Lee:
@jon-nyc said in Robert E Lee:
MLK had totally deprecated views on homosexuality. Can’t even imagine what he might have thought about women with penises and men who menstruate.
I thought his views were straight forward and Biblical. As with most things today, the LGBTQXYRZ community is engaged in higher forms of pretzel logic, claiming King was A-O-tay with homosexuality.
I thought Martin Luther actually said it better... " The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. "
He went on to say:
"They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".
Oh silly me, he wasn't talking about homosexuals here, but about the Jews. Thank God nobody in Germany picked up on this sort of talk.
Do try to keep things straight, Phibby.
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Rum, sodomy and the lash, baby.
Not necessarily in that order.
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So in Richmond, VA they are removing a Robert E Lee statue that has stood for 130+ years. I was texting with my 3 buddies and they were shocked to hear that I thought the removal was a shame, and they also thought that “Lee decided to defend slavery, period” whereas my position is he was dedicated to his state, and he (and most who died in the war) deserve to have their dedication to their state honored.
Our text chain went on for a while, and we made a number of additional points (opinions and facts) but I’m curious.... your thoughts on Lee in the context of his legacy and history?
@89th said in Robert E Lee:
So in Richmond, VA they are removing a Robert E Lee statue that has stood for 130+ years.
https://www.quotes.net/quote/15082
“There is a terrible war coming, and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the South, for I would free them all to avoid this war.
Robert E. LeeAmerican general who led the Confederate Armies in the American Civil War (1807-1870)
