Robert E Lee
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@bachophile said in Robert E Lee:
Been some mighty good fighting men that toted that flag. Honorable men.
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Possibly Ax wasn't speaking of secret police in comparison to Gen. Lee, but as a separate entity, and it was y'all who missed his point.
Which not for nuttin happens quite a lot.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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Possibly Ax wasn't speaking of secret police in comparison to Gen. Lee, but as a separate entity, and it was y'all who missed his point.
Which not for nuttin happens quite a lot.
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It was probably a good move by the US Marine Corps. I think it is true (from what little I know) that the Confederate Flag has been "co-opted by extremist groups".
As Jolly said, I am sure that there were many good people that fought who were Confederate, but that was 160 years ago! Nobody today has any memory or direct involvement in the US Civil War. I know some people say that "I am honoring my great great great grandfather, etc.", but I am sure there much better ways to do so.
For example, What are you doing to honor your great grandfather? He was a shoemaker who lived in the state of New York. How do you honor him?
It reminds me of a one cartoon when the US was in Iraq. A US soldier was riding with an Iraq soldier. They were passing through a village and the Iraq soldier mentioned he hated the people who lived in this village because they had fought his relatives. The US soldier says, "wow, when did this happen?" And the Iraq soldier says, "1534!!"
History is important and I love history and there are certainly ways to honor and remember history (like statues, memorials, museums, books, etc).
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TG, I must disagree. You may be right about the Confederate Flag being co-opted in some way and I'm just unaware, but it also represents a prominent part of American history, and to disappear all traces of the South's role in the war sits badly with me. It is like enacting a real-life version of "pix or it didn't happen". Plus these removals attempt to lay a sense of shame over the South that is undeserved. Both sides fought with conviction and honor.
And we need to retain the dreadful lessons learned. 160 years is not that long ago.
My impression on this question is much influenced by emotion, I'll admit.
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It was probably a good move by the US Marine Corps. I think it is true (from what little I know) that the Confederate Flag has been "co-opted by extremist groups".
As Jolly said, I am sure that there were many good people that fought who were Confederate, but that was 160 years ago! Nobody today has any memory or direct involvement in the US Civil War. I know some people say that "I am honoring my great great great grandfather, etc.", but I am sure there much better ways to do so.
For example, What are you doing to honor your great grandfather? He was a shoemaker who lived in the state of New York. How do you honor him?
It reminds me of a one cartoon when the US was in Iraq. A US soldier was riding with an Iraq soldier. They were passing through a village and the Iraq soldier mentioned he hated the people who lived in this village because they had fought his relatives. The US soldier says, "wow, when did this happen?" And the Iraq soldier says, "1534!!"
History is important and I love history and there are certainly ways to honor and remember history (like statues, memorials, museums, books, etc).
@taiwan_girl said in Robert E Lee:
I think it is true (from what little I know) that the Confederate Flag has been "co-opted by extremist groups".
You know that in the same way you know that American white cops murder black people on the regular.
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Southern soldiers were treated as veterans after the war, and no small part of that decision was to rebuild and mend the rift between the north and the south. And you can say a lot of things about Mandella but he understood that idea too.
Want to move forward? Don't kick sand in the eyes of the losers if you have to live with them. Nevermind rewriting history, it's a bad idea for the future.
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The British version on removing pro-slavery statue:
George Floyd death: Protesters tear down slave trader statue
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305 -
The British version on removing pro-slavery statue:
George Floyd death: Protesters tear down slave trader statue
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305@Axtremus
BBC sux. They don't allow comments, so there is no way for the reader to get info from people that weigh in on what's going on.Our local Oregonian also stopped allowing comments, for the same reason: they don't want any contrary input to whatever the bias is in the article. Too bad, as within all the nonsense, there can be some very smart and thoughtful input that people (I, that is, me) can learn from.
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@Axtremus
BBC sux. They don't allow comments, so there is no way for the reader to get info from people that weigh in on what's going on.Our local Oregonian also stopped allowing comments, for the same reason: they don't want any contrary input to whatever the bias is in the article. Too bad, as within all the nonsense, there can be some very smart and thoughtful input that people (I, that is, me) can learn from.
No problem, @Rainman , if readers' comments are what you are looking for, try this other fine news source on the same topic that also carry many readers' comments:
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It was probably a good move by the US Marine Corps. I think it is true (from what little I know) that the Confederate Flag has been "co-opted by extremist groups".
As Jolly said, I am sure that there were many good people that fought who were Confederate, but that was 160 years ago! Nobody today has any memory or direct involvement in the US Civil War. I know some people say that "I am honoring my great great great grandfather, etc.", but I am sure there much better ways to do so.
For example, What are you doing to honor your great grandfather? He was a shoemaker who lived in the state of New York. How do you honor him?
It reminds me of a one cartoon when the US was in Iraq. A US soldier was riding with an Iraq soldier. They were passing through a village and the Iraq soldier mentioned he hated the people who lived in this village because they had fought his relatives. The US soldier says, "wow, when did this happen?" And the Iraq soldier says, "1534!!"
History is important and I love history and there are certainly ways to honor and remember history (like statues, memorials, museums, books, etc).
@taiwan_girl said in Robert E Lee:
It was probably a good move by the US Marine Corps. I think it is true (from what little I know) that the Confederate Flag has been "co-opted by extremist groups".
As Jolly said, I am sure that there were many good people that fought who were Confederate, but that was 160 years ago! Nobody today has any memory or direct involvement in the US Civil War. I know some people say that "I am honoring my great great great grandfather, etc.", but I am sure there much better ways to do so.
For example, What are you doing to honor your great grandfather? He was a shoemaker who lived in the state of New York. How do you honor him?
It reminds me of a one cartoon when the US was in Iraq. A US soldier was riding with an Iraq soldier. They were passing through a village and the Iraq soldier mentioned he hated the people who lived in this village because they had fought his relatives. The US soldier says, "wow, when did this happen?" And the Iraq soldier says, "1534!!"
History is important and I love history and there are certainly ways to honor and remember history (like statues, memorials, museums, books, etc).
Darlin', my great grandfather fought in the Red River Campaign as an artilleryman. My MIL will spit before she says the words "Abraham Lincoln"
History is closer than you think...
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It's difficult to think about. Jordan Peterson talked at length about those soldiers that worked in the death camps of WWII. And, like he pointed out, those that committed the heinous acts were just like all of us. Outside of doing the unthinkable to others, thinking of the people groups as vermin to be irradicated, then go home with a (semi) clear conscience, kiss the wife, pet the dog.
Point is, the South lost the war, but the soldiers were NOT some sort of evil beings, or "vermin." They were just men, doing what they were told to do at a certain point in time, with a dog at home and a wife that wanted to be petted.
But now, the "woke" want to do exactly what they preach not to do: they make anything Confederate as if vermin, that should be as if killed again, because they were evil. Now, who's the evil ones, I can't help wonder. Lots of people need to clean their mirror, and take a fresh and honest view of themselves.
Lemmings don't have mirrors, there is that.
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It's I teresting.... Tennessee isn't exactly in the South, yet it's considered a southern state, it's called the volunteer State, apparently because so many Tennesseans volunteered to fight in the war. Yet for the most part Tennessee didn't approve of slavery. They say history is written by the victors so the narrative is that the civil war was about slavery. But most Tennesseans didn't have a dog in that fight, and saw it as a war of aggression.
Actually, Tennessee is for all intents and purposes 3 states... not very tall north to south but very long east to west. West Tennessee was solidly confederate, had slaves, etc. But to east tennessee, West Tennessee might as well be Mississippi. East Tennessee was pro-Union and antislavery.
How the hell will future generations learn about this and learn the finer points of our history if all evidence that any of it ever happened is destroyed and history rewritten?
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Next thing you're going to tell me is that blacks didn't own slaves in New Orleans...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Ax, are you nuts?
Where the hell is Bristol? Like, that's not even American.
Something about a statue, best I can decipher.Yeah, comments. But they're not even in American, no help at all.
@Rainman said in Robert E Lee:
Where the hell is Bristol? Like, that's not even American.
Something about a statue, best I can decipher.Yeah, comments. But they're not even in American, no help at all.
Bristol is a city in the U.K. When I linked the BBC piece, I prefaced that by saying it is the British’s version of removing a pro-slavery statue. The Black Lives Matter movement here in the U.S.A. has recently inspired a crowd in the U.K. to take down a statue of a former slave trader.
