Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?
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@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
P> > Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
No, I think people vastly overvalue their ability to navel-gaze and think Deep Thoughts, confusing that with superior intelligence. I think a good farmer, who can squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum is intelligent. Or a ghetto kid born into poverty, who somehow manages to scrape and work his way out of poverty into the middle or upper middle-class is pretty intelligent. Or a Polynesian fisherman, who can read the waves and how the water breaks, reading the weather and knowing how to set his nets to outcatch his peers is intelligent.
You take those people, give them the education that the modern "intellectual" has and you will see similar IQ scores, providing the test is not biased or rigged.
I didn't say you thought farmers and fishermen weren't intelligent. I'm saying that your posts consistently insinuate that urban professional knowledge workers are unintelligent because they can't "squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum." You think intelligence means "have the skills I value."
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
P> > Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
No, I think people vastly overvalue their ability to navel-gaze and think Deep Thoughts, confusing that with superior intelligence. I think a good farmer, who can squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum is intelligent. Or a ghetto kid born into poverty, who somehow manages to scrape and work his way out of poverty into the middle or upper middle-class is pretty intelligent. Or a Polynesian fisherman, who can read the waves and how the water breaks, reading the weather and knowing how to set his nets to outcatch his peers is intelligent.
You take those people, give them the education that the modern "intellectual" has and you will see similar IQ scores, providing the test is not biased or rigged.
I didn't say you thought farmers and fishermen weren't intelligent. I'm saying that your posts consistently insinuate that urban professional knowledge workers are unintelligent because they can't "squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum." You think intelligence means "have the skills I value."
Did I say that or is that your inference?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
P> > Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
No, I think people vastly overvalue their ability to navel-gaze and think Deep Thoughts, confusing that with superior intelligence. I think a good farmer, who can squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum is intelligent. Or a ghetto kid born into poverty, who somehow manages to scrape and work his way out of poverty into the middle or upper middle-class is pretty intelligent. Or a Polynesian fisherman, who can read the waves and how the water breaks, reading the weather and knowing how to set his nets to outcatch his peers is intelligent.
You take those people, give them the education that the modern "intellectual" has and you will see similar IQ scores, providing the test is not biased or rigged.
I didn't say you thought farmers and fishermen weren't intelligent. I'm saying that your posts consistently insinuate that urban professional knowledge workers are unintelligent because they can't "squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum." You think intelligence means "have the skills I value."
Did I say that or is that your inference?
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
P> > Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
No, I think people vastly overvalue their ability to navel-gaze and think Deep Thoughts, confusing that with superior intelligence. I think a good farmer, who can squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum is intelligent. Or a ghetto kid born into poverty, who somehow manages to scrape and work his way out of poverty into the middle or upper middle-class is pretty intelligent. Or a Polynesian fisherman, who can read the waves and how the water breaks, reading the weather and knowing how to set his nets to outcatch his peers is intelligent.
You take those people, give them the education that the modern "intellectual" has and you will see similar IQ scores, providing the test is not biased or rigged.
I didn't say you thought farmers and fishermen weren't intelligent. I'm saying that your posts consistently insinuate that urban professional knowledge workers are unintelligent because they can't "squeeze a bit of dirt in his hand, look at the sky and know he's got a couple of days to plant for a hopeful maximum." You think intelligence means "have the skills I value."
Did I say that or is that your inference?
I'm paraphrasing, so feel free to correct me, but you've said many times that urban professionals were rubes because they don't appreciate where their food comes from. And you did straightup say my degree was worthless, so, you tell me.
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I do think many urban professionals are of the drone class, creating little in the bigger scheme of things. That has nothing to do with their intelligence, but with their worth to society.
I don't remember saying your degree was worthless, but I'm sure I was right at the time.
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I do think many urban professionals are of the drone class, creating little in the bigger scheme of things. That has nothing to do with their intelligence, but with their worth to society.
I don't remember saying your degree was worthless, but I'm sure I was right at the time.
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I do think many urban professionals are of the drone class, creating little in the bigger scheme of things. That has nothing to do with their intelligence, but with their worth to society.
I don't remember saying your degree was worthless, but I'm sure I was right at the time.
Thought as much. -
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I do think many urban professionals are of the drone class, creating little in the bigger scheme of things. That has nothing to do with their intelligence, but with their worth to society.
I don't remember saying your degree was worthless, but I'm sure I was right at the time.
Thought as much.I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
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I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
@Renauda said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
Better'n that my friend! Poetry.The jokes write themselves. And yes I've already heard 'em.
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@Renauda said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
Better'n that my friend! Poetry.The jokes write themselves. And yes I've already heard 'em.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Renauda said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
Better'n that my friend! Poetry.The jokes write themselves. And yes I've already heard 'em.
What’s the difference between a degree in poetry and a degree in pottery? The degree in poetry can’t afford the extra t.
Education is extremely important.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Renauda said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
Better'n that my friend! Poetry.The jokes write themselves. And yes I've already heard 'em.
What’s the difference between a degree in poetry and a degree in pottery? The degree in poetry can’t afford the extra t.
@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Renauda said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I wasn’t aware that you had a degree in theology.
Better'n that my friend! Poetry.The jokes write themselves. And yes I've already heard 'em.
What’s the difference between a degree in poetry and a degree in pottery? The degree in poetry can’t afford the extra t.
It's spelled po' etry.
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I call it "educated beyond their intelligence". There are lots of people like that.
I read somewhere that humans are devolving entally.... each generation being a little less intelligent than the previous one - and how the average Roman, Egyptian, etc 4 or 5 000 years ago would make modern day geniuses look silly by comparison. I don't know if there's any truth to that or not.... but I do know that just in my lifetime I've watched as humanity at large went from knowing the difference between a man and a woman to not knowing where to piss.
I think it's unfortunate that urban and rural each have a chip on their shoulder regarding education. Some of it is caused by years of ideologically driven nonsense that purposely has tried to divide us. Rurals think urbans look down their noses at them because they work with their hands, urbans think rurals look down their noses at them because they don't. Sometimes that's exactly what's happening, but not always, and usually not at all once they get beyond being defensive.
Intelligence describes the ability to learn. But you don't have to be intelligent to learn any more than someone with a third grade education means he isn't intelligent. What's lacking today is not intelligence, it's wisdom.
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@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
I think the limbic system statement bears some thought.
Not to be Victorian, but the intelligent man has no more control over his limbic system than the man of lower intelligence?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
I think the limbic system statement bears some thought.
Not to be Victorian, but the intelligent man has no more control over his limbic system than the man of lower intelligence?
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@jon-nyc said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Intelligence helps you acquire skills.
It’s not like if you teach someone to farm they get an IQ boost out of it.
And obviously there are plenty of things any modern person can do that would baffle the Victorians.
For Jolly, intelligence is synonymous with "shares my values."
Wrong.
If the Flynn Effect is real, why can I read a 2500 year-old document and still see men committing the same abusive and heinous acts today? The level of education and knowledge is immeasurably higher today, but men still engage in the same self-destructive behavior. If today's man were vastly more intelligent than his ancestors of more than two millennia ago, should not his destructive and abusive behavior have stopped?
No, it shouldn't. That's limbic system stuff that we've never evolved out of. It's a completely separate brain system from logic and creative problem-solving.
And I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment at all. You seem to think that anyone who isn't a homesteader is significantly more stupid than those who are, because only morons don't know how to grow their own crops and replace load-bearing walls.
I think the limbic system statement bears some thought.
Not to be Victorian, but the intelligent man has no more control over his limbic system than the man of lower intelligence?
In the past 20 years or so, they figured out that the limbic system drives and engages our rationality, not the other way around. In other words you emote first because it's a far older (read: faster) process, and you then apply your logic and reasoning under that emotional influence. You can work on your self-awareness to better understand what your limbic system is signaling to you, but there's no such thing as not having emotions during decision-making for anyone whose personality is adequately integrated.
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Everybody has emotions, but it would seem the more intelligent the man, the more control he has over his own actions. Ergo, I think, then I act.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Everybody has emotions, but it would seem the more intelligent the man, the more control he has over his own actions. Ergo, I think, then I act.
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
Everybody has emotions, but it would seem the more intelligent the man, the more control he has over his own actions. Ergo, I think, then I act.
Nope. It's not an intelligence thing. Completely separate function. In fact plenty of highly intelligent people suck at it.
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I call it "educated beyond their intelligence". There are lots of people like that.
I read somewhere that humans are devolving entally.... each generation being a little less intelligent than the previous one - and how the average Roman, Egyptian, etc 4 or 5 000 years ago would make modern day geniuses look silly by comparison. I don't know if there's any truth to that or not.... but I do know that just in my lifetime I've watched as humanity at large went from knowing the difference between a man and a woman to not knowing where to piss.
I think it's unfortunate that urban and rural each have a chip on their shoulder regarding education. Some of it is caused by years of ideologically driven nonsense that purposely has tried to divide us. Rurals think urbans look down their noses at them because they work with their hands, urbans think rurals look down their noses at them because they don't. Sometimes that's exactly what's happening, but not always, and usually not at all once they get beyond being defensive.
Intelligence describes the ability to learn. But you don't have to be intelligent to learn any more than someone with a third grade education means he isn't intelligent. What's lacking today is not intelligence, it's wisdom.
@Larry said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
I call it "educated beyond their intelligence". There are lots of people like that.
I read somewhere that humans are devolving entally.... each generation being a little less intelligent than the previous one - and how the average Roman, Egyptian, etc 4 or 5 000 years ago would make modern day geniuses look silly by comparison. I don't know if there's any truth to that or not.... but I do know that just in my lifetime I've watched as humanity at large went from knowing the difference between a man and a woman to not knowing where to piss.
I think it's unfortunate that urban and rural each have a chip on their shoulder regarding education. Some of it is caused by years of ideologically driven nonsense that purposely has tried to divide us. Rurals think urbans look down their noses at them because they work with their hands, urbans think rurals look down their noses at them because they don't. Sometimes that's exactly what's happening, but not always, and usually not at all once they get beyond being defensive.
Intelligence describes the ability to learn. But you don't have to be intelligent to learn any more than someone with a third grade education means he isn't intelligent. What's lacking today is not intelligence, it's wisdom.
Makes alot of sense.
I agree that someone with a third grade education may be intelligent. But what I think school offers is a way to help understand and solve complex problems and also develop a longer term view.
For example, I have worked with farmers in the third world. Smart people and really know how to grow crops "in the moment" with very little. But try and talk with them about why (for example) "slash and burn" agriculture is not the best method long term, and they would be better off not doing it, it is a struggle to make them understand.
"I need to clear the remains of my crops now."
"But, this may cause increase soil erosion, drying out of the soil, etc"
I need to clear the remains of my crops now!"
The less education a person has limits this ability I believe. (And I am saying this from personal experience, both from family members and others)
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Seems to me that if you practice using your brain, you're likely to get better at using your brain.
If you don't, you probably won't.
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The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.
Education is extremely important.
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The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.
@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.
Was he as proficient in other subjects?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Everybody has emotions, but it would seem the more intelligent the man, the more control he has over his own actions. Ergo, I think, then I act.
@Jolly In the book How To Master the Art of Selling, the author explains something all good salespersons learn sooner or later. People fool themselves when they believe they're buying a thing for good, well thought-out reasons. What actually happens is that they spy the item and want it, and then after the fact come up with all sorts of reasons why buying the thing is a good practical thing to do.
The example he used is the guy in the showroom trying to decide whether to buy the SUV or the sports car. He had kids. Somehow or other, he talked himself into buying the sports car.
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@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.
Was he as proficient in other subjects?
@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:
The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.
Was he as proficient in other subjects?
I don't know.
Education is extremely important.
