The Ukraine war thread
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‘They Deceived Us at Every Step’: Troops Say Russia’s War Is in Shambles
Troops sent into Ukraine to back up Russian forces say they had no choice but to leave because Russian military was in shambles and “they deceived us at every step.”
Soldiers from the breakaway state of South Ossetia—speaking to South Ossetian leader Anatoly Bibilov at a meeting publicized by the independent news outlet MediaZona—rattled off a list of complaints about faulty equipment, lack of leadership and intel, and brainless tactics.
South Ossetia, which relies heavily on military and financial aid from Russia, sent troops to Ukraine in late March to “defend Russia.” Ukrainian military officials said at the time that some 150 South Ossetian troops were joining forces with Russia, but Tskhinvali never gave any official figures.
Many of the soldiers are said to be part of Russian military units based in South Ossetia; Moscow and Tskhinvali struck a deal in 2017 to partially incorporate their armed forces.
But reports soon surfaced of many of them refusing to take part in the fight, vowing not to become “cannon fodder.”
“Nobody got scared here, it’s just that they deceived us at every step,” one of the soldiers told Bibilov of their decision to abandon the fight.
“Of the 11 days [that we were there,] I wouldn’t even wish on an enemy what happened there. All the equipment didn’t work, I’m telling you straight… There was no command staff,” another soldier told the South Ossetian leader.
Out of 10 tanks, the first soldier said, only three fired. “The artillery mortar for the mortar-gunners didn’t work, the legs were all crooked,” he said.
“There was no command. And if the officers didn’t know what to do, what is the sergeant doing there?” another soldier was quoted saying.
He said “99 percent of the equipment” in another unit didn’t even work, but when the troops warned the senior in command that their vehicles didn’t work and their guns “did not fire,” he shrugged it off and said to just “go like that.”
In another case, troops complained of their commander “disappearing” every time fighting started.
“He was afraid of his own men. He made himself a security team out of a few of the guys. The commander refused to come out and talk to his own guys and was saying that he’d be beaten,” one soldier said.
Eventually, “some guys from spetsnaz [special forces]” really did beat him and left his “face all bloody,” he said.
They said the Russian troops never had backup plans, or escape routes. Another soldier said one of his wounded comrades in Russian-occupied Donetsk was getting no medical care.
“He says that the first day they bandaged him, but there’s still shrapnel inside him. He says his hand is very swollen, and nobody is doing anything, the doctors aren’t even coming to see him. He’s been there for five days, and the doctors are only asking him for money,” he said.
After hearing the soldiers paint a picture of such utter dysfunction, Bibilov asked the men directly if they believe Russia will lose the war.
One soldier spoke up: “Yes, we believe they will lose.”
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Copper said in The Ukraine war thread:
Let's not forget that democrats hate the United States.
Sadly, they do.
It's a more recent phenomenon. In WW2, intelligence of this kind would guaranty a visit from the FBI if you were a civilian, by the JAG if you were military. If it was something connected with MAGIC or the Bomb, you probably would get a visit from the OSS if you were military. That's bad...Your papers would immediately be changed to you having a mental problem and off to the funny farm you would go. For the duration. Unless they just decided to arrange an "accident" and shoot you on the spot.
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Why advertise it?
Because it kicks right Putin right where it hurts and he knows he can do sweet fuck all about it.
It’s Uncle Sam’s way of saying “I’m pissing on your parade and watching you cry while I do it cause the time’s a comin’ that I’m gonna kick your ass”.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Because it kicks right Putin right where it hurts and he knows he can do sweet fuck all about it.
It’s Uncle Sam’s way of saying “I’m pissing on your parade and watching you cry while I do it cause the time’s a comin’ that I’m gonna kick your ass”.
I totally understand your point, and, to an extent, I agree.
I agree that it says what it says you say. (I could have phrased that a lot better, LOL.)
But, do you really think that he really cares about this? I don't. This is propaganda fodder for him.
"Look! The Americans ADMIT that they're interfering with our 'special military operation.'" The Putin lovers will slurp this down like a bottle of (cheap, to be sure) Russian vodka. It feeds the narrative that he's trying to promote, and, IMO, is very unhelpful to the overall cause.
Better to let it happen, keep it quiet (as much as you can) and let him assert whatever the fuck he wants. This just gives him credibility to his people.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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"Look! The Americans ADMIT that they're interfering with our 'special military operation.'" The Putin lovers will slurp this down like a bottle of (cheap, to be sure) Russian vodka. It feeds the narrative that he's trying to promote, and, IMO, is very unhelpful to the overall cause.
I too see what you are saying. I also agree it is not text book intelligence tradecraft to share and admit. But this is not a textbook war either where governments control all the messaging. Putin would like to think he does but it is not so, especially in the large urban areas.
Besides, the US not alone in sharing and admitting they are sharing intelligence. All NATO countries are part of this particular sting operation. Well, maybe not so much the goddamn Magyars.
However Putin’ s War not a special military operation. It is a war of Russian aggression upon its neighbour . Putin can play that narrative b.s. all he wants but as time goes on his narrative grows thinner and weaker in Mother Russia with each conscript phoning home and body bag or ash urn brought home to the village for burial.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
The M-777 155mm howitzer the U.S. is sending to Ukraine is notable for a few things...
- There is titanium used in certain parts, making the gun lighter than the Russian 152mm howitzer. The M-777 is air mobile.
- The M-777 out ranges the Russian gun.
- The U.S. is sending enough rounds, that the tubes will be shot out before the ammo is exhausted. What the U.S. is not doing, is supplying Copperhead rounds.
A good crew can emplace the gun in a little over ten minutes, then fire five rounds per minute using the M-777's GPS system.
90 in all + some other 155mm stuff from other countries...
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I think that President Putin would use the US "interference" as propaganda no matter what, whether it was in the paper or not.
I think that the average Russian he is trying to sell the propaganda pretty sure does not read the New York Times, or other US newspapers.
He is going to say what he is going to say. "The US is behind this, etc etc" Appearing in a US paper that has very limited reach in Russia.....
The people educated enough to access and read the US papers probably have a knowledge already of the situation.
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G George K referenced this topic on
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@Klaus said in The Ukraine war thread:
Who or what is RSOTM?
"Reverse Side Of The Medal."
It's the face of the Wagner group.
With a number of credible reports of foreign fighters engaged in the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh on behalf of Azerbaijan, a number of journalists and analysts have looked to one of the world’s most infamous private mercenary companies (PMC), Russia’s Wagner PMC, as a potential actor in the conflict. However, there has not been any firm evidence showing their arrival or involvement in the war which has rocked the South Caucasus since late September. In the search for potential evidence of Wagner’s involvement into the conflict, many have looked to Reverse Side of the Medal (RSOTM), one of the most public channels of communication used by fighters from Russia’s private military companies fighters, especially Wagner and those close to them.
This group operates a Telegram channel, along with pages on Instagram, YouTube, and VKontakte (VK). The group’s most prominent administrator is Maksim Fomin, writing under the pseudonym “Vladlen Tatarsky” (taken from a novel by popular Russian writer Viktor Pelevin). Fomin previously fought in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine for the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR). Over the past week, this channel has shared a number of photographs alluding to the arrival of Russian mercenaries — with the Wagner group being the obvious candidate — to Nagorno-Karabakh to assist Armenian forces in their ongoing conflict with Azerbaijan.
